tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post6703354531724273487..comments2024-03-28T13:56:11.462-05:00Comments on Jeff Bergosh Blog: How Do Other Governmental Bodies Handle The Pre-Meeting Invocation?Jeff Bergoshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12638001957494810839noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-82426492584841863172014-12-07T03:42:50.699-06:002014-12-07T03:42:50.699-06:00No, Anonymous, they do not simply get to "F#c...No, Anonymous, they do not simply get to "F#ck off" as you so politely put it, because nowhere in the constitution or in any SCOTUS ruling does it say that we have to personally invite a non-Christian to bring our invocation every month. You fail to apprehend the issue; There is freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. Last month, we had a moment of silence. The Pagan who stirred this issue up locally (who really just wants attention) was invited by another board member to bring his invocation, and he backed-out for reasons unknown. When it is my turn to next bring a guest, I'm bringing a Jewish person to bring the opening prayer. Our board does nothing that violates the constitution, you simply have a failed understanding of what it is the constitution, and the relevant SCOTUS rulings, say and mean with respect to local legislative bodies and their legal right to open meetings with a prayer for the benefit of the assembled body. Try to figure that out, why don't you.Jeff Bergoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12638001957494810839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-14981391691937349762014-12-07T01:09:23.444-06:002014-12-07T01:09:23.444-06:00So, Christians get to have special privileges and ...So, Christians get to have special privileges and everybody else can just f#ck off? Nice to know the constitution of the United States is not truly for all americans.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-76490295628111293792014-09-30T19:52:47.918-05:002014-09-30T19:52:47.918-05:00He will walk out because he doesnt have the same r...He will walk out because he doesnt have the same respect for others beliefs that he demands for his ownThe Captainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03221368165054991990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-19761157378057088752014-09-29T13:52:00.449-05:002014-09-29T13:52:00.449-05:00Mr Bergosh, when you are doing your job as an elec...Mr Bergosh, when you are doing your job as an elected official you are representing everyone in, in this case, your school district. You are not representing just your fellow Christians... you are representing everyone.<br /><br />If you can't do your job because your religious beliefs get in the way then resign your positionJames Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752903515712179427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-17767523143970949342014-09-29T09:43:54.807-05:002014-09-29T09:43:54.807-05:00Mr. Bergosh, if you can't stand to listen to t...Mr. Bergosh, if you can't stand to listen to the invocation of some other religion then you have no grounds to expect anyone to listen to the invocation of your religion.James Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752903515712179427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-17033881531069463642014-09-28T18:24:54.064-05:002014-09-28T18:24:54.064-05:00It seems fairly obvious, if not painfully so, that...It seems fairly obvious, if not painfully so, that if the law allows for a religious invocation, and a witch doctor asked to give such an invocation, then it would be your obligation under law to accept it.<br /><br />The religious beliefs of any one member of the board -- indeed, the beliefs of the majority of the board -- are immaterial here. The constitution is a great and powerful document because it protects the rights of minorities against the "tyranny of the majority."<br /><br />I fail to find any case in which your denial of a witch doctor's right to give the invocation would be lawful, or even moral.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-59082643513740670222014-09-28T15:15:44.600-05:002014-09-28T15:15:44.600-05:00"What if a “Witch Doctor” comes to the podium..."What if a “Witch Doctor” comes to the podium with a full-on costume, chicken-feet, a voodoo doll and other associated over-the-top regalia?"<br /><br />What is a Catholic Priest shows up in his dress, big hat, carrying what he believes to be the literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ?BJohnMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04268277554802121599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-20090825863396922942014-09-28T13:53:59.779-05:002014-09-28T13:53:59.779-05:00Mr. Bergosh,
I would just like to inform you that...Mr. Bergosh,<br /><br />I would just like to inform you that you do, indeed, represent people who have different beliefs from you. While it is commendable to include other faiths, such as one of many Jewish traditions, the Pagan invocation was not disrespectful. Comparing his outfit and demeanor to a Witch Doctor is insulting to American Pagans, to actual practitioners of Voodoo, and to other Christians.<br /><br />As a Pagan, I am glad to work with other minority religions in my community. We have long standing relationships with Christian groups and have recently reached out to the Jewish and Muslim communities in my area. While we don't believe in what the others do, we respect them as individuals and celebrate their voices.<br /><br />I was Pagan as a high school student and I remember being discriminated against by Christians who opposed my beliefs. I was falsely accused of "cursing people with Tarot cards" and told I could not wear my emblems of faith because it was similar to some anonymous gang symbol that was never specified. Students and faculty who bullied me were beyond reproach. I was forced to answer for my beliefs by people in authority, and told pityingly, "I'll pray for you".<br /><br />Whether or not you agree with other beliefs, you are a public official and as such, you represent people who don't necessarily hold the same beliefs or worldview as yourself. How do you think those people feel?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-23210802625720321242014-09-28T12:42:32.722-05:002014-09-28T12:42:32.722-05:00Apparently Jeff Bergosh is intolerant of others re...Apparently Jeff Bergosh is intolerant of others religions. Should someone who is so ignorant be in that position? Who else is he intolerant of? I don't think that being rude and walking out during the evocation is acceptable. Have some class and dignity in respecting others religions, even if you don't believe. I don't think someone like you should hold your position. If you can't be reasonable and respectful of religions, what else are you full of hate on? What other people do you hate? A bigot like you should step down. This is a country of many religions. Get used to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-5354029342300215642014-09-28T12:03:03.280-05:002014-09-28T12:03:03.280-05:00To the person who said this: The council consider...To the person who said this: The council considered including an invocation at the start of meetings, with council members leading it. I pointed out that we could do so on a rotational basis; I certainly wouldn't object to our Catholic councilman invoking the mercy of Mary, or our Baptist councilwoman invoking the blessings of Jesus of Nazareth, and certainly they wouldn't object to me invoking the wisdom of Athena, yes?<br /><br />We Catholics do not worship Mary.James Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752903515712179427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-28076243009341597062014-09-28T11:14:28.988-05:002014-09-28T11:14:28.988-05:00Some years ago, I was a member of a city council. ...Some years ago, I was a member of a city council. I'm also a Hellenic Reconstructionist -- that is, I am devout to the Hellenic Theoi (which you know better as "the Greek Gods").<br /><br />The council considered including an invocation at the start of meetings, with council members leading it. I pointed out that we could do so on a rotational basis; I certainly wouldn't object to our Catholic councilman invoking the mercy of Mary, or our Baptist councilwoman invoking the blessings of Jesus of Nazareth, and certainly they wouldn't object to me invoking the wisdom of Athena, yes?<br /><br />On that note, they immediately decided that perhaps this whole invocation business was a bad idea and dropped it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-10457544436238067372014-09-28T03:18:20.478-05:002014-09-28T03:18:20.478-05:00Mr Knoxville, just to correct your ignorance.... f...Mr Knoxville, just to correct your ignorance.... fascism is on the right wing side of the political spectrum. If it is the end point of anything then it is the end point of conservatism... not liberalism.James Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16752903515712179427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-18855552267352440272014-09-27T21:09:43.895-05:002014-09-27T21:09:43.895-05:00How does Jeff Bergosh still have a job serving the...How does Jeff Bergosh still have a job serving the public? He clearly should be working for a Church.<br /><br />Let's vote this intolerant bigot out of office ASAP and be done with it. There is real work to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-8209092951258381642014-09-27T10:01:28.927-05:002014-09-27T10:01:28.927-05:00You guys are embarrassing me. I wish I could say t...You guys are embarrassing me. I wish I could say that I can;t believe that members of my county's school board would act like this, but I'm really not. <br /><br />Ridiculous. You are a ridiculous person. I want to let you know that as a parent of a child who attends school in Escambia County, your histrionics and blatant bigotry are not appreciated. You ought to be deeply ashamed of yourself. You aren't, of course. But you should be... and I feel sorry for you and sorrier still for the people who have to deal with you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-74623331606495023592014-09-17T14:51:12.097-05:002014-09-17T14:51:12.097-05:00Typical christian reaction.Typical christian reaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-78760845972920988102014-09-16T16:08:19.851-05:002014-09-16T16:08:19.851-05:00Wow, your ignorance of anything outside yourself a...Wow, your ignorance of anything outside yourself and your tiny experience of the world is not impressive at all. You should learn something about other people, perspectives, religions, and cultures.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17138158086718425840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-37262822514863210682014-09-15T18:01:47.901-05:002014-09-15T18:01:47.901-05:00Your reference to witch doctors was rude, disrespe...Your reference to witch doctors was rude, disrespectful and presumptuous. But also consider this when talking about voodoo, full on costumes and over-the-top regalia: What do you think this image looks like to someone who is non-religious.http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/gallery/090415/GAL-09Apr15-1886/media/PHO-09Apr15-158255.jpgAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03512822581119781996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-45226816673245961642014-09-13T22:46:47.440-05:002014-09-13T22:46:47.440-05:00"What Happens If the Witch Doctor Demands to ..."What Happens If the Witch Doctor Demands to Be Heard??"<br /><br /><br />Oh, that's an easy one. If a Witch Doctor requests to give the opening invocation then you allow a Witch Doctor to give the opening invocation. Just like you allow a Christian to give the opening invocation.<br /><br />Now that wasn't hard was it.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-1188164179359596122014-08-27T10:51:18.105-05:002014-08-27T10:51:18.105-05:00I do not understand the issue with having the invo...I do not understand the issue with having the invocation from various recognized religions allowed for the meetings.<br /><br /> Frankly, as the board would have to approve the speaker, it would be simple enough to keep someone from spreading a hateful message or some idiocy about worshiping Satan. Though, Satanists are kind of idiotic in the fact, that by worshiping a being from Christianity, they are technically Christians that are worshiping the losing team. But, I digress.<br /> <br /> I would assume that current Christians that give the invocation aren't allowed a great number of props save for their bible or notes. So, for a Voodoo witch doctor (Actually, called Houngan if it is a male priest.) to show up and perform the invocation, he would not need any extra props for a show or a chicken to sacrifice. And just fyi, Vodou is not the best choice for a religion you would list with satanists and ban. They give praise to many of the same Christian saints and, unlike the movie portrayals aren't all savages/bone carriers that try to raise the dead. Please at least do some minor research, even something as flawed as wikipedia, before making such assumptions about any faith.<br /><br /> That being said, again, the board has approval on who get's to speak. So, while your broadening your horizons to allow a Rabbi to speak instead of a Catholic, Protestant, or Baptist, please understand that not everyone agrees with you either. I am sure there are those that are in the audience that would like to step outside and not have to listen to what you or others say. But, doing so is disrespectful and insulting. Which is most likely why they simply sit quietly and wait for the meeting to start.<br /><br /> Lastly, please note that the Sci-Fi based Klingon religion and it's worship of Kahless, to my knowledge, is in not a currently recognized religion in the United States of America. The only science fiction based religion to ever get off the ground and become a power house was Scientology. The only Klingon church/faith that I have ever heard of or recently seen was it's being used as a tool with Christianity. (Basically, it is sci-fi fans getting together and comparing aspects of both religions and how it relates to Jesus's resurrection. Long story, just do a Google search for Klingon Church.) <br />So, no. No one would be allowed to give the invocation in Klingon or any other fictional language.<br /> As our national language is English and all of the meetings must be transcribed for the records, I always thought that it was pretty much a given that any invocation is just done in English. Though, if the board wanted a foreign priest make remarks you may or may not understand, by all means, go ahead.<br /><br /> I respect your faith and your feelings that it, above all others, is what is best for the world. That is how most people view their own faiths and denominations of those faiths. However, please understand that not all those of other faiths are that different from you and the basic tenants of your own Christian beliefs. Also, not all atheists or agnostics are out to destroy your belief structure. Much like with Christianity and Islam, there is simply a rather loud minority that takes everything to the extreme in order to get attention. This is not one of those times. This is not an attack on you personally or your faith as a Christian. This was just a simple request presented to you publicly by one of your fellow residents in Escambia to recognize that they have a right have their faith bless such proceedings at times or, if an atheist, to give words of inspiration and wisdom focused inward upon the individuals in attendance and not outward towards a supreme being above. He just made sure to back it up with legal precedent.<br /> Thanks for your time.J. Copenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-65503127996056956742014-08-23T14:35:16.412-05:002014-08-23T14:35:16.412-05:00Jeff,
So, while I think there will be those wh...Jeff,<br /> So, while I think there will be those who want to imitate the stunts portrayed in shows like "Jack Ass," I agree with your thought of non indulgence. The irony here, though, is these believers who think the world popped out of nothing, i.e., they believe in nothing, who have always walked away, turned their back (like the "winner" at the last school board meeting did) or whatever, now want to force you to stay. As their idol, Dr. Spock would say, "fascinating." <br /> They are just jealous that when you walk out, others who are rational will follow. And, these non lawyers claim they can force you to stay. Isn't that like the left, I can do as I please, but, you must listen and be polite to my non sensical garbage. Guess what, when liberalism reaches its end path, it splits in two pieces: fascism and communism.<br /> Keep doing great things and ignore the most vocal minority here. You know who they are, flying spaghetti monsters who need to have some parmesan cheese sprinkled on top...Jon Knoxvillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-144676104624138372014-08-23T09:28:08.921-05:002014-08-23T09:28:08.921-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12865362604598747775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-16999603188096807332014-08-23T03:27:22.703-05:002014-08-23T03:27:22.703-05:00In consideration that non religious people are the...In consideration that non religious people are the fastest growing demographic among young people in American. I would impress upon you the idea that one day, Christians will be a minority in this country. In Scandinavia it's already the case with sociologists estimating that in less than 20 years it will be gone. Just bringing it up because you might meditate on the idea of how are you treating minority religious viewpoints now and how you might be treated once Christianity is a minority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-60435631399647000472014-08-23T02:41:34.159-05:002014-08-23T02:41:34.159-05:00I can't help but notice your leaving the room ...I can't help but notice your leaving the room with the rest of the audience would actually highlight why the official public invocation is so utterly unnecessary. <br /><br />If having your invocation done anywhere other than the public forum is such an easy and simple alternative, why not just do that anyway? At which point, this whole charade becomes moot.Tris Stockhttp://trisstock.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-44547030739498319382014-08-23T02:36:54.139-05:002014-08-23T02:36:54.139-05:00Take a good look at the picture of the 'witch ...Take a good look at the picture of the 'witch doctor' above, Mr. Bergosh. That's how you and the rest of the superstitious community look to rational people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1317770170474039861.post-47522221625441195012014-08-22T22:48:06.750-05:002014-08-22T22:48:06.750-05:00Why do you need to warn someone and encourage them...Why do you need to warn someone and encourage them to walk out? Xtians can simply already do what non-believers do at every meeting: silently and respectfully sit, stand, turn their backs, play on their phones, meditate, stick their fingers in their ears and hum, whatever. Are you so afraid of offending Christians that you need to give them a special warning bnot given when a Christian speaks? "WARNING: Content of invocation prayer may not be what the board wants it to be. It may contain heretical ideas that Christian ears should never hear. Please feel free to excuse yourself in protest." Jennifernoreply@blogger.com