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| The messaging from the paid fire union did not square with the sentiments of many volunteers in ECFR |
In the wake of the professional firefighter's union vote of "no confidence" yesterday in Public Safety director Mike Weaver---I was contacted by and spoke to multiple high-ranking Escambia County Firefighters. Those with whom I communicated were from the volunteer side of the house.
(Note: there are 300+ firefighters in Escambia--of which 160 or so are volunteers....)
"We did not support this vote, and Nick Gradia does not represent us nor does he speak for us" said one volunteer who sounded frustrated. He continued "They are using these challenges to try to strong-arm the board into hiring more paid firefighters, and this is going to lead to the board having to raise taxes again--it will turn into a giant tax increase for the citizens and we don't support that." He said. He went on to detail his opinion about the timing of this vote: "They are bargaining right now and they are doing this to improve their position."
Another volunteer put it in more succinct terms when that individual reached out later in the day..."This vote does not represent the majority of the firefighters I know. We all know we have challenges and that the county is trying to do the best they can."
When I asked this individual how the teaming was going between paid and volunteer at his station--he summed it up by saying "It varies. some shifts treat the volunteers well, but it is not consistent. If it is a medical call, and depending on what crew is on shift, they may let volunteers run the call or ride with them because they know an EMS will be right behind them." "But if it is a structure fire or an auto wreck that they have to extract a driver or passenger from--then they tell us to stay in the station" Then he said dryly "Then we see the pictures on their social media, on their facebook page"
For my part--knowing what I know about EMS and the current challenges they are facing and also
understanding from constituents some of the continuing issues with integrating the volunteer and paid fire crews--I see these statements in context. The union wants us to increase the budget, and to hire more paid staff. But that will require a significant increase in funding.
For my part, I continue to believe there is a way forward that:
1--Won't require an increase to the MSBU (switch to a year-one, revenue neutral MSTU that will grow faster and be more predictable than is the MSBU)
2--Encourages more volunteers to join to help augment the paid crews
3--Better integrates the volunteers and paid staff--"one force, one fight" (critically important)
4--Better deploys EMS units where firefighters are inundated with medical "sick" calls
5--More intelligently integrates the budgets of EMS and ECFR and purchases equipment with LOST funds exclusively to free up additional revenue for salary increases and re-structuring of paid ranks)
I've discussed my plan that I developed in consultation with staff and with fire personnel. I hope we can do something like what I have proposed so we won't have to slap more taxes on County property owners--which I won't support!
A long-term volunteer, well-respected in the community, summed it up this way. "They want an all-paid force, and they don't care what it costs. They don't care if you all have to raise taxes-- It will be unaffordable, and unsustainable. They will bankrupt the county just like what happened in Jacksonville/Duvall County."
That won't happen as long as I am on the board though. We will live within our means, we will be intelligent.
how many volunteer firefighters would go full time paid firefighter if the money was there, since they are supposdly trained and certified?
ReplyDeleteThats a questions that needs to be answered before any plan is pushed I would think.
Did I read only 1/3 of the troops were at the vote? If so then not necessarily all the paid guys supported this motion.
ReplyDeleteI think you should Pull the Call Data (Medical Calls, etc) so the public can see what's really going on.
ReplyDeleteI suspected strong arm tactics when I saw that.
ReplyDeleteLet's clean up your generalizations Jeff. I can tell you have ZERO knowledge or understanding of how your public safety services operate, so I'm going to help you understand. I am also not going to let you blow smoke to the citizens of Dist 1 about what you’re conveying in your blog.
ReplyDelete"I was contacted by & spoke to multiple high-ranking Escambia Co FF’s. Those with whom I communicated were from the volunteer side of the house."
1. High Ranking?
a. What were the positions of these "high ranking" personnel?
b. What is their level of activity as far as responses to incidents?
And let's get something else straight, Paid staff is what you have working for you. Career FF's have a career & have completed a state academy, certifications & proper licensing to have said career. Refer to them as career FF's, not paid staff.
2. "(Note: there are 300+ firefighters in Escambia--of which 160 or so are volunteers....)"
a. Verify that those personnel are active not just on the roster, w/ hard data.
b. Verify their status at an incident ie; administrative, standby @ the station, on scene operating.
c. Also, provide data on engine response & times & the number of qualified personnel responding for both
3. "We did not support this vote, & Nick Gradia does not represent us nor does he speak for us" said one volunteer who sounded frustrated."
a. Of course not, the IAFF is a LABOR union.
b. Did you ask him about the Volunteer FF’s Assoc(pseudo-union) that I know you have consulted with in the past & still have pulling on your heart strings?
c. What info have you garnered from them?
d. Have you bothered to attend a local IAFF meeting?
4. "They are using these challenges to try to strong-arm the board into hiring more paid firefighters, and this is going to lead to the board having to raise taxes again--it will turn into a giant tax increase for the citizens and we don't support that."
a. Did said volunteer tell you how much a "volunteer" Dist Chief can make, yes make, a month when they meet all requirements as voted on & approved by the Volunteer FF's Assoc.? Up to $1000/mo plus a phone & vehicle. So that equates to about $12,000/yr in addition to their full time job.
b. They receive tax money just like the career side does. The career crews are there EVERYDAY to maintain and operate the tax payer purchased equipment and insure that the stations are maintained and clean.
c. Do not for one minute think that the "volunteer" staff will ask for an add'l increase in the stipend they receive.
d. There are no strong-arm tactics being deployed. The career FF's have asked and asked and asked for help and provided date to the former PS Director. He was well aware of these issues they were facing and nothing changed except a little increase here and there.
f. Did you know the county is paying for a Volunteer Firefighter "recruiter and retention" position that pays nearly $15k a year and provide them with a vehicle and a cellular device? (note: a Dist Chief position that makes an add'l stipend for this position) To whom is he accountable to for his productivity/results in the recruitment/retention domain?
5. "When I asked this individual how the teaming was going between paid and volunteer at his station--he summed it up by saying "It varies. some shifts treat the volunteers well, but it is not consistent. If it
I have 33 signed letters from paid or as you call it career Firefighters that didn’t agree to this vote. That’s going to seal my deal. Bet that Gradia guy didn’t count on that. He’s in for it.
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ReplyDelete"For my part, I continue to believe there is a way forward that:"
ReplyDelete1--Won't require an increase to the MSBU (switch to a year-one, revenue neutral MSTU that will grow faster and be more predictable than is the MSBU)
a. MSTU will bite you in the butt if and when the market drops. It has happened all over the country. MSBU is a steady stream of income. If you would vote on a billing fee for incidents that insurance companies already have money set aside for, that is a revenue source that you have not explored. It will not effect the taxpayer's insurance. The money is already there to handle municipal emergency service responses.
2--Encourages more volunteers to join to help augment the paid crews
a. There are "volunteers" now that augment the paid crews. Many of which ride along with the paid crews. Also, they are flexible to ride anywhere they would like. This does not happen on a regular basis.
3--Better integrates the volunteers and paid staff--"one force, one fight" (critically important)
a. That is already occurring, you just do not get around to see it or care to inquire. The previous Fire Chief made sure of that as well as his predecessors. SO your point is moot on this as well.
b. "I was contacted by and spoke to multiple high-ranking Escambia County Firefighters. Those with whom I communicated were from the volunteer side of the house." If it's "critically important", why say Escambia County Firefighters and then mention they were "volunteers"? One force, one fight, right? You could have easily said, "these firefighter's are not part of the local IAFF or not part of the career staff". Aren't they all ECFR FF's? And let's get something else straight, Paid staff is what you have working for you. Career FF's have a career. Refer to them as career FF's, not paid staff.
4--Better deploys EMS units where ff’s are inundated with medical "sick" calls
ReplyDeletea. That is a superb idea. How do you propose to make that happen? Do you have a plan? How can you have a plan when you don't even know how PS operates? Chief Nail has a plan & a better one I am sure. You won't give him the tools he needs to do so. I wonder if your plan & his are similar??
5--More intelligently integrates the budgets of EMS and ECFR and purchases equipment with LOST funds exclusively to free up additional revenue for salary increases and re-structuring of paid ranks)
a. This could’ve been done years ago. Could’ve happened when were voted into office. It can still happen. You failed to provide the tools necessary to do so. You say this & then do that. The same old song & dance that has happened for years.
b. What value are you getting for the MSBU as compared the services ECFR career personnel provide? I can list dozens of incidents that career personnel have responded to that required specialized training, that is available to all ECFR FF’s by the way, that have resulted in lives saved & property preservation. In other words, as compared to the taxes that the City of Pcola pays & the services they provide, you're getting substantially more "bang for your buck" from your ECFR FF's.
6. "A long-term volunteer, well-respected in the community, summed it up this way. "They want an all-paid force, and they don't care what it costs. They don't care if you all have to raise taxes-- It will be unaffordable, and unsustainable. They will bankrupt the county just like what happened in Jacksonville/Duvall County.""
a. Long term career firemen, well respected in the community can sum it up this way, we want what's best for the citizens. We want the citizen's to have a guaranteed response 24/7/365 with the most qualified & certified & licensed personnel we can provide.
b. "Volunteers" receive tax money as well. Do this Jeff, break down what it costs per incident for a volunteer company to run & a career company to run. Let your constituents know that the MSBU will guarantee them a response 24/7/365 from career ff’s. Let them know how many calls have gone unanswered by the "volunteers” & covered by a career crew. Give them hard data instead of these scare tactics about, "slapping more taxes on county property owners". You do know that career firefighter's are property owners as well right? The career FF's won't bankrupt a county, that's your job to keep that from happening. OLF 8? LOL
Volunteers have a long standing place in this county. Career FF's have a long standing place now in this county. Every BOCC board has failed to understand and comprehend how to change and adapt to this needed service. It is difficult at best to volunteer as a FF in the state of Florida due to the training and time requirements required. Escambia is not running off volunteers, Escambia has to abide by the rules and regs as dictated by the state. Volunteers have families just as the career ff's do. They have required training, licensing, certifications that must be kept up with they won't have a career.
ReplyDeleteLastly, instead of hiding away in the great Google universe, out this info out on the social media news outlets. North Escambia, WEAR, PNJ, NewsRadio 92.3, or anything else. You blog in relative obscurity. If you feel that strongly about something, put it out there.
Seriously, last question, why won't you take the time as I did to educate and bring facts to the table instead of pandering and and propaganda? You could have easily explained all that I just did. Did you not want the citizens to know? Are you jockeying for the sympathy vote? Get out there and learn how your emergency services operate Jeff. Grasp an understanding of what ECFR provides from "both sides of the house" as you say. Oh my bad, "one force, one fight". I will finish with this, there are quite a few volunteers that contribute greatly and with better experience than a lot of career personnel. That is invaluable. Their career entails something that is an asset to the emergency incident whether it be a volunteer who works for the county in some capacity, the state, a law enforcement agency, a trucking company, etc. But you would have to spend some time in the trenches to know an understand that.
Have a fine Escambia County Day.
Do you feel better now. Wow you said a mouth full Mr. Anonymous #1. How long have you been in the career firefighter field to know so much but yet so little? This bashing of the county as a whole has to stop. Stop bashing the BOCC, the Director, employees, and the volunteers. This is enough.
ReplyDeleteFeel better? not really. I do feel the need to let the public know what is really going on. how little do I know? share some facts with us. lay it out there. there is no bashing of the county as a whole. it's called facts. everything that was posted is factual. the numbers may be a bit off as far as what dollar amount is made by district chiefs and the volly recruitment/retention coordinator. everything there is true. did you read the last paragraph?
ReplyDelete" I will finish with this, there are quite a few volunteers that contribute greatly and with better experience than a lot of career personnel. That is invaluable. Their career entails something that is an asset to the emergency incident whether it be a volunteer who works for the county in some capacity, the state, a law enforcement agency, a trucking company, etc. But you would have to spend some time in the trenches to know an understand that. "
It's funny when facts get put out there for all to see how riled up opposition becomes. was anything that was posted false? I simply asked for Jeff to verify his generalizations. Are you good with vague sentiments from an elected official? if you are it explains how he got in office.
as far as "this is enough", it hasn't even started. the data and facts will speak for themselves.
Next thing you know, they will be petitioning the Governor. This smells of Morgan and his tactics in getting the raises. Hopefully we the taxpayers won't have an Eric Haines type in the ECFR to then hold back on those raises..... Go ahead, change my mind.
ReplyDeleteRaises? How many times has that been mentioned? Oh yeah, ZERO...personnel, equipment, apparatus, etc. The concern is distances traveled and stretching manpower thin, having to travel miles and miles to cover calls in districts where there is no career coverage. Yes, the ISO rating fell to 4. You're welcome. Career guys busted their butts checking hydrants, pre fire plans, entering data, keeping records, etc. It's possible the non-career stations did as well, who knows. I know of one around the McDavid area who more than likely did. It's not about raises, it's about protecting your investment and family. ECFR personnel live here as well. ECFR is petitioning you. The ones they protect and serve. You have no idea what ECFR is capable of. Drop by a career station and sit a spell. Learn something about your fire department that serves you regardless of what is happening. I guarantee you won't -- change my mind.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 10:18 April 11, not sure if this was you on the other thread but the subject was brought forward with this passage in reply that reads along the same lines and attitude as yours, "several have left for better paying departments that are w/in driving distance of escambia county." That right there is one of the shots across the bow so to speak that the ECSO used last year in the dispute between the BCC and The Sheriff. That is what I was referring to and your demeanor in replying to someone not totally in sync with your thoughts are very similar to those of Chief Deputy Eric Haines...... Hey, just calling it like I see it. Change your attitude and begin to change my mind.... because I want to support you, like I did the Deputies.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a shot across the bow. it's the truth. there have been men and women fresh from the academy and they have stated, Escambia doesn't pay as well. there have been a handful that have departed for better paying jobs. it's really that simple. please forgive the attitude. I don't like the situation PS is in to be compared to the SO nor the the tactics the SO employed to get their wish. the situation is dire in PS and not sustainable with the current methods being used to sustain it. I would love to sit and have you ask me questions about what the concerns are and/or have you see them first hand.
ReplyDeleteooohh..The plot thickens
ReplyDelete