In part I, which I posted last month, I asked this question. Is the legality of the 401(a) plan a "Grizzly Bear Trap?" I asked Because the Board of County Commissioners approved a contract in 2016 before I came on the board with ICMA to administer a local 401(a) plan for elected officials and senior staff members---and yet suddenly this contract was constructively voided by the clerk of the court when she and her attorney said the plan was "illegal" and began deducting monetary contributions described in this board contract as it pertains to several board members. (I don't take this plan, I have an FRS Pension plan from the School Board where I was elected in 2006)
When someone arbitrarily asserts that something is illegal--it must be backed up. And if this opinion is flawed and such a contract is legal, it is not within anyone's purview, except the board of county commissioners as a body, to act on such a bonafide, legal contract.
Is the 401(a) plan too generous? Is the rate of return obscene? These are legitimate questions and these are issues which the board can address and should address. But, they are separate and apart for the foundational question which I asked from day 1 when this topic erupted. Is it Legal?
The board requested and received a written opinion on July 21, 2021 from Allen Norton and Blue attorney Michael Mattimore. His opinion, below, appears to support the position that the plan is legal and comports with statues. His opinion was deemed attorney work product and was not releasable until tonight's vote on this matter--where the board voted 4-0 (Underhill left the meeting early) to release this opinion to counter the false narrative that this 401(a) plan is/was "illegal." According to our county attorney and now this opinion from ANB-the plan is legal.
So why do I want to release it--when it doesn't even pertain to me and I don't take the plan?
#1-Nobody definitively proved it was illegal--yet action was taken that unilaterally voided a contract the board voted to enter. This is a right (BOCC contracting ability) I will guard zealously, this is within nobody else's purview but the Board of County Commissioners. It is inappropriate for another constitutional officer to insert their view, judgment, or will on the Board's LEGAL contracts.
#2-The dishonest, unethical PNJ was going to continue to drag me into this issue and deliberatly paint me in a false light with actual malice by insinuating (via disparaging cartoons and fake-news editorials) I am taking this 401(a) plan and I am acting unethically--even though they know (due to reports in at least one article they published) that I do not take this plan and never have.
Read the opinion for yourself, below, now that it has been released by the board. According to multiple expert government lawyers--the plan is legal. So why has it been terminated unilaterally by someone who did not have the right or authority to do this?
Pam looked stupefied by your presentation.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I let Steven know what Underhill was publishing about him and Alison being criminal on ECW and Studio850. I thought the editorial published by Marlette looked like what Underhill was saying..Notice they also broke it out and published it on ECW. Also the cartoons putting the commissioner on the wheel of fugitive's deserves a retraction and an apology. I am not even going to look on ECW tonight for his foolishness. He should be removed from the board. The PNJ should take a good look at what they are doing and allowing to be propagated from their publication.
ReplyDeleteIt is no longer just fun and games.You should have never even been in the cartoon. I saw you had added this to the agenda. Good job.
Anonymous 10:51 I would think everything Doug has said on Facebook about the board would be an ethics violation.
DeleteIt’s nice to see Jeff asked the board their approval to release this, Instead of secretly giving it to someone else to post like Doug does.
Who wants to bet there won’t be any retractions or mentions of it being a legal plan? Another commenter asked why are we paying Commissioner underhill and I’d like to know that too. He doesn’t show up to all the meetings and when he does he leaves early or when he doesn’t like something. He did act drunk tonight.
DeleteWait a minute. So Pam lied?
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if this is true but I hear Alex Arduini and Jacqueline Rogers are about to have legal problems..Does anyone know what they did?
ReplyDeleteThat would be somebody else that throws all those conspiracy theories out.
DeleteIsn’t he the one that was at the boc meeting taking pictures of people’s text messages over their shoulders? Immature thug.
DeleteIN the court of public opinion this is still not doing well.
ReplyDeleteNE did apparently have a release ready to correct the record but he allows all sorts of negative comments to go through. That's his business model.
Get the screen shot of Underhill on the facebook comments on NE. .
"Douglas Underhill
Pretty sure there will be subpoenas and indictments before this is over"
He knows full well the sheep won't read the full article.
You have someone commenting that YOU want to get the money.
I'm not going to get in the mix and correct the record but you can keep trying if you want to. I've gone to read only for the most part..
Simply put -- the public was not ready or willing to approve of a lost settlement, so it will be hard for Barry to overcome that, however Underhill will not relent.
He was too chicken shit to even be there for the discussion and you have handled him with kid gloves for far too long.
Douglas Underhill is a troll. He throws out the most attention seeking comments to get people riled up but it doesn’t go any further. He talks just to hear himself talk. I regret voting for that bloated Buffoon.
DeleteJacqueline Rogers is right about William Reynolds and the money that has been funneled over to him. You can't trust him to be fair and balanced, but it's just a blog also.
ReplyDeleteThat's the way of the world for the most part.
He did break the story Barry wanted. I think Barry is an honorable public servant and his name and reputation is important to him. If he doesn't run again, I hope we don't get a nincompoop wanting a seat. Voters as a whole are not very smart.
JAR is mad because her NIMBY lawsuits didn't work.
Politics
Who will step up to serve with all the prying lying eyes? Underhill moving to D5?
God help us.
BEHIND ALL THIS IS THAT UNDERHILL HAS A HUGE LEGAL DEBT FOR RUNNING HIS MOUTH ON ESCAMBIA CITIZENS WATCH AND HE SAW THE OTHER COMMISSIONER WAS LOOKING INTO GETTING MONEY ABOVE AND BEYOND>
ReplyDeleteUNDERHILL IS GOING BROKE FOR BEING AN ASSHOLE AND SO HE KEEPS BEING AN ASSHOLE>
THE GOVENOR WILL NOT GET IN THE MIDDLE OS THIS SO THEY REFER IT BACK TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION>
THE ETHICS COMMISSION ALREADY GAVE THE OPINION IT WAS OK!!
SO ALL THIS IS IS POLITICAL THEATER.
BROUGHT TO YOU BY YOURS TRULY...DAH DAHHH
DILDO DOUG
all caps for the fun of it...
change the channel
Next..
Hold on here- seems like the subject has changed. No one is up in arms over the red herring issue of whether or not that plan is legal. It obviously is.
ReplyDeletePeople are up in arms because Steven Barry and Lumon May wanted the County to BACKFUND their 401A accounts for a 5-6 year period when they weren't actually enrolled in it- which they apparently intended to pull off by slipping it through as part of a consent agenda without even a direct vote by the full board.
That would have been illegal.
Wonder Woman might be out of her lane, but she also kept them out of prison. Make no mistake: if the two of them had made off with a half million dollars, the folks over at the State Attorney's Office- once they got over their initial fit of laughter- would have had process servers crawling all over 221 Palafox PL.
Having said that, the PNJ and Doug Underhill should be sued up to their eyeballs for claiming that Bergosh and Rogers have done anything illegal (which they have repeatedly)
Yeah it will hurt your head to read stupid comments on facebook. On NE One thinks the BOCC fired Childers.
ReplyDeleteWatching people tag the governor on ECW is a hoot. The governor is also in the elite class y’all are griping about. What do you think his retirement plan looks like? Florida state board of administration, Tallahassee, which oversees the money management of the pension fund and 401(a) plan isn’t interested in a group of hicks with torches and pitchforks and a rogue county commissioner griping about retirement benefits.
ReplyDeleteThat man that was at the D5 town hall that was about to lose his mind was on NE Facebook about this. No way I would type anything. They don't seem reasonable.
ReplyDelete11:46 are you talking about Sean? He’s a crazy extremist.
DeleteHe’s one of the adult bullies who complains about this blog. They don’t like the taste of their own poison.
DeleteWhy didn't the Pensacola News Journal report this?
ReplyDeleteFlorida Senate bill seeks to close state pension plan to most NEW HIRES. The bill, approved Thursday 24-16, would close the defined benefit plan to most new hires starting JUNE 30, 2022 and automatically enroll them in the Florida Retirement System Investment Plan, the state's $15.3 billion 401(a) plan.
ReplyDeleteSenate President Wilton Simpson issued a news release Thursday citing the Florida Retirement System's funding ratio as a reason for the reform bill. According to FRS' most recent actuarial valuation as of July 1, its funding ratio was 82%.
WHILE THE COUNTY’S CONTRIBUTION TO BOTH PLANS IS THE SAME, the difference is the annuity plan doesn't have any overhead fees, making it a much more lucrative plan because the entire county contribution goes into the account.
ITS NO LONGER AN OPTION FOR NEW HIRES.
***NEW HIRES***
I don’t see what the big deal is. If I was given the choice I would of taken the 401(a) too. Why wouldn’t you?
In PNJ today. “The plan has existed in the same format and function for over 20 years and has survived more than 20 audits, without a single comment being made or single issue being raised over that time period by extremely reputable and very well paid external accounting firms," Barry said Friday. "Lastly, despite persistent narrative to the contrary, every single commissioner, regardless of what retirement program they have selected, is the same expense to our taxpayers, the exact same."
ReplyDeleteIf it’s the exact same expense to tax payers then why are the whack jobs on ECW spending their lives crying 24/7 about it. Because they complain about everything Commisioner underhand tells them to.
Between these last few blogs and reading elsewhere (ECW facebook) somethings comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteNotice patterns;
Bear with me please
Do you see now that Underhll is urging people to report his other board members to the States Attorney? Just yesterday after this Thursday's meeting. He also mentions the only person holding water is the cartoonist. He is implying to raise it up higher above what they had Marlette publish for him (them)
Reading over the shade transcripts;
I see that the DOH had not given an update to the county attorney about the three paramedics that are awaiting a trial right now. The process is that the complaint is confidential unless they find probable cause, so apparently they didn't, at least not at the time, years later.
I see a pattern, Underhill -- sets up propaganda to release on ECW, like he did with the HR and Insurance guy email, very similar to the letter he set up from the lady from the wildlife place on the the Beach Access issue. You know the one, where they had taken screen shots from ECW free speech and this blog and sent them to her. It's not like the people from wildlife would be monitoring facebook, so it was a set up.
I believe after a while in EMS after the DOH had not done anything, I think someone in the county initiated the so called "FDLE raid" and then published it on PNJ.
I think someone at the county had that investigation done on purpose, It's not like law enforcement would be looking for a "criminal" who had maybe passed out a certification card.
Look, I'm not saying that was a good practice however HR should have started progressive discipline after the Doctor pointed that out.
Maybe she finally turned them over to DOH and also went to Underhill because they weren't following through.
Now you have these three paramedics awaiting trial with trumped up charges, their cases keep getting continued and who knows what will happen with COVID delaying things.
So yes you have got to get a handle and follow the proper HR practices at a low level, progressive discipline, not release these things to the news.
I think Underhill etal encouraged someone to contact the SAO to arrest their own employees.
That really is terrible, it just is.
What are you going to do about it?
I read in the shade transcripts that they are no longer employees, so you aren't responsible.
If that's not epitome of throwing someone under the bus, I don't know what is.
Make it right, even if someone "blames" you for putting the county in a bad position that the insurance has to pay yet another settlement for these three paramedics.
We see what the county did. And so far you are the only one really stepping up to do the right thing.
May your rewards be many.
ReplyDeletePNJ did cover it.
https://www.pnj.com/story/news/2021/08/07/escambia-county-seek-outside-opinion-lucrative-annuity-program/5502807001/
To August 6, 2021 at 3:36 PM
ReplyDeleteYes that's probably the middle ground we can stand on.
Next..
Watching the tropics and COVID.
March Friday the 13, 2020 is when the entire country went on lockdown.
I think something else may be brewing for this Friday the 13..
My Magick 8 ball shows:
"Without a doubt"
I’ll take a guess and say someone will be served on Friday and Florida will have a hurricane blowing red tide around
DeleteBack on the topic 401(a) and Pam's "illegal" claims
ReplyDeletePlease correct me if I am wrong.
1, Pam used the term illegal
2, now she wants to bargain with how moving forward by stating her terms of surrender.
3, Dougey did call for the arrest of the other board members
4, Dougey thinks all of you civilians should not have a retirement as elected officials making a fraction of the highest paid employees in the county.
5, the elected officials duration of service is limited by time in office at the whim of the voters vs county employees who serve with far different employment.
6, elected officials are not actually "vested" in the FRS until the 6th year of service so winning a second term to snatch that prise was so imperative that Dougey threatened ecw that if he cannot get sign wavers to show up for him he and the publix video bomber skeezing in the produce dept would go and wave themselves eating wonder bread and mayo sammiches, He was besides himself in that period.
7, FRS pays for life with $$$ based on salary at time of seperation and other factors?
8, The 401(a) is a relatively simple investment 'instrument' that is essentially a single time pay in for a 'instrument'.
9. A 401(a) is a version of 401(k) that typically has no options as a very low risk investment instrument where the 401 (k) being offered with a menu that is broad with an average of 20 options in risk category.
10, The FRS puts the payments on the taxpayers after separation and 'is passed on to surviving spouses' (?) for lifetime of those individuals.
11, Many who qualify for a 401(k) (sometimes available to government eare also on retirement plans but very simply again opting to a 401(a) is the alternative not a possible 'also' option unlike Dougie adding the FRS to his military pension and benefits
12, There are (TSP) available to some or many federal employees link here (https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/my-annuity-and-benefits/thrift-savings-plan/
) that have benefits like matching contributions that may or may not be available with a 401(a).
13 simply again elected officials and directors may serve at the whim of forces beyond their control be it voters or administrators who should qualify for a plan that could fit the life thy will have in the future with their own guide on finances.
14, Wow, Pam is really off the chain in politicking on this issue with her words but at least she has not called boards arrest like Dougey.
15, I have not seen many former elected officials take a job with the county after serving but do see directors tke other positions in the county and state and the disparity between elected pay and employees and directors can be puzzling.
I know it is difficult to equate being a Commissioner to the Private sector so far as benefit packages but if compared to many boards in fortune 1,000 or 500 firms you Commissioners are under paid as it is and compared to the list of those making $100k+ in the county with the problems encountered in what seems like all the time in board and media drama that bleeds to the courts.
PS, Steven could and should not have talked to doug about going to Tallahassee on an issue intended to be voted on unless at a meeting and doing due diligence is dougeys slam on others and has been tossed back at him too many times to count and Dougey has gone to what he calls "Tally" many times in the path to the point that there were more than one contrevency about travel reimbursements with him and his staff.
What is the number for "Tally"?