Yesterday's board discussion about the county's 401(a) retirement plan was inartful. And I said so multiple times. It was a discussion that did not need to happen. It should have been worked out between the lawyers in the background and the facts brought to us for a decision. But nope, we had to make sausage even though we didn't need to have this discussion in public.
But it happened, nonetheless. (Starting at 1:08:25 of this video)
Full disclosure, I do not take the 401(a) plan, I never knew it existed until two months ago, and obviously the rate of return for elected officials (over 51% for next year) is obscenely high. These are the facts upon which we can ALL agree. Do I believe these rates are too high? Yes, of course I do, and I said so at the meeting.
Furthermore, the additional facts of the matter are very clear: The county has had this plan in place for nearly 25 years (since 1997) and many current and former employees and current elected members of the board have made irrevocable elections out of the standard FRS plan to join this local plan. This plan and the administration and rates for reimbursement to the accounts of employees and elected officials are memorialized in a contract the board approved in 2016 before I was on this board. At the meeting yesterday, I again asked our attorney if this plan was legal, to which she replied "Yes."
Now comes the strange, artless, choppy, sloppy, and unusual stuff. The Clerk's office put an "information item" on their portion of the agenda, stating they would unilaterally be reinterpreting portions of the board's 2016 executed contract with ICMA because they felt the "rate of payment into these accounts was too high." They did not say, in their agenda backup, however, that they felt it was "illegal" to make these contributions. So I asked the clerk and the clerk's attorney both point blank: Is this illegal? After pressing them---after wading through a lot of gibberish and gobldegook--they both finally stated at the meeting in answer to my query that yesthey believe it is "illegal." But our attorney, again, believes otherwise.
So here's where it gets interesting and the questions come in rapid fire fashion:
If it is indeed illegal--why has the clerk's office signed off and sent in the checks to pay these astonishingly high rates of return for the last 8 years? If it is illegal today, was it illegal then? Does paying from the treasury an illegal charge carry any penalty under state statutes? Is ignorance of the law a defense? Robert Bender made a very subdued, modest statement that resonated with me when he disclosed to us all via a statement to the clerk that he indeed sought a clerk's opinion about the plan shortly after he took office, specifically about the high rate of return and if this was legal, to which he apparently received reassurance from the clerks office that it was legal. I mean, this must have been their opinion--otherwise the payments to Bender's account should have stopped right then and there, in early 2019.
But no, the clerk's office continued to approve these huge payments ever since. Apparently these queries from Bender to the clerk's office were made in writing. (Someone should look at these).
So here's the bear trap. If it is/was legal to pay these plans--then the clerk has NO legal authority to take action to prevent or pause payment--this is up to the BOCC to fix or adjust, our issue. A clerk unilaterally not paying or attempting to void or reinterpret an executed contract is imporper at least-and could be that office acting ultra vires at worst-- according to our attorney. (Yes, I asked that question yesterday, too)
On the other hand--if the clerk is right and this is in fact illegal--then why the heck have these payments been made for all these years? How the heck could the clerk's office say yes--it is legal to Robert Bender in 2018 and continue to pay if it was illegal? And why in the heck would it take them 3 years to finally figure out it is illegal and not simply problematic? And if they figured out this past week, that it is/was illegal---why not just indicate that within the backup? Why make me pry it out of the clerk's attorney like a pearl diver opening a clam? Why not say "YES WE THINK IT'S ILLEGAL!" Why the doublespeak about it being "problematic." What the hell does that even mean, anyway?
Too many questions--but meanwhile we, the BOCC, have requested formal legal opinions on all these questions from an outside counsel. The answers will be interesting to read. Either way though, this spectacle of a discussion yesterday turned into a grizzly bear trap about to be sprung........
And whatever happens there with that---the BOCC will fix this issue--because It's our issue to fix.
49 comments:
Thank you for this explanation/clarification.
This is a all point alert If you attend a County Commissioners meeting be very careful you never know who standing behind you I found and discoverd a screen shot of text message with a friend at the meeting Im outraged someone would take picture screen shot of pribate text message between me another person. Any questions ask me on facebook
What in the world? Who took pictures of someone’s phone at the meeting?
Whomever is guilty of doing that at bocc meeting needs to be banned from meetings and a restraining order needs to be put in place.
I’m going to take a wild guess and say the guilty party that was taking pictures of phones while people were texting was either Jacqueline Rogers or Alex Arduini?
If it was either of those lunatics I really think the police need to get involved. Alex Arduini’s QAnon involvement is frightening enough. I think a wellness check needs to be done by the police on his children. There’s no telling what’s going on behind closed doors at his house. Just my opinion.
Eric Sharplin my facebook name any questions about the person taking pictures of my cell phone ask on me facebook
I would guess the same, they are probably trying to show eric and mel texted each other. big deal
that they did..
but invading someone's privacy is another matter
except they collect screen shots and sue citizens getting county employees and commissioners involved and pretend they are the only authority and experts in town.
never seen eric before except they probably kicked him off because he supported Gene.
he mentioned party down south..
games people play
yes if you disagree with alex he kooks you up..but well everybody does, most just don't try to win arguments that way..
that's why ecw is getting a smackdown.
they probably have a private group assembled collecting info on mel for the d2 race..
crazy, best to turn them off and enjoy life
Happy Father's Day
Jeff
I feel confident the BOCC will solve the issue of the retirement. Appreciate the info.
Eric report it to the Chairman BCC Robert Bender district 4 please. He is responsible for maintaining order in chambers.
You can find contact info on myescambia.com
Perhaps he can direct you to where else to report it.
The intimidation and incivility between these people needs to be stopped.
Commissioner Bergosh,
I don't understand why secretly taking a photo of someone's private messages and disseminating them both privately and publicly does not rise to the level of criminal activity per the following state statute:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0900-0999/0934/Sections/0934.03.html
--Melissa Pino
Eric, that’s a gross invasion of privacy, posting private photos without your consent on Facebook, doxing, and a form of stalking. I agree that whomever did it should be banned from attending county meetings in the future. When you can’t even sit in a meeting without fearing someone going to that kind of extreme, that’s a serious safety concern.. Please report it.
wow so now it's alleged someone's civil rights were being violated in chambers then perpetrator publishes it social media.
I really appreciated you taking the lead on that conversation, Commissioner Bergosh. Good people understood that the contract item was going to be personally painful for Commissioner Barry, and were grateful that you took the lead on Ms. Childers's absurd politicking. I am still shocked that she fell prey to political manipulation on bringing an item that is a lose-lose for her office.
--Melissa Pino
Jacqueline Rogers or Alex Arduini either one could be guilty party. They dont like people who dont agree with them. Jacqueline Rogers worship Underhill he can do no wrong in her eyes. I have seen her attack Steven Barry says it online she has always been a coward she wont say to your face which so sad. I thinks its thats all she has to do is go around runnings other into the ground. I kinda wonder if she had a unhappy childhood. I have noticed she does seem like she is happy. Its very true miserable try and make everyone around them feel bad
Just so you know, the speaker that came to the podium with an earnest speech, speaking for all of us wasn't.
"We all see it
We all know it
Everybody sees what going on this this and that.."
Going around all over face book repeating that wins no argument.
"Fallacies are fake or deceptive arguments, "junk cognition," that is, arguments that seem irrefutable but prove nothing. Fallacies often seem superficially sound and they far too often retain immense persuasive power even after being clearly exposed as false. Like epidemics, fallacies sometimes "burn through" entire populations, often with the most tragic results, before their power is diminished or lost. Fallacies are not always deliberate, but a good scholar’s purpose is always to identify and unmask fallacies in arguments."
I realize the board gives citizens time to speak but a point of order is you are
not being interrogated publicly.
I know you can respond or not.
I read that you are required to have an open meeting but you don't have to allow speakers. Although drastic it is possible. Grandstanding, infighting, calling out employees, individual commissioners, should not be tolerated.
So, the Board has one position and the Clerk has another and we're going to have to litigate it to find out who is right.
This county sure sues itself a lot.
Alex Arduini
The person who took the photo and gave it to me was concerned for you. They are the farthest from that. I understand it upset you, but the only one who looked bad was Pino and Barry, everyone knows they were trying to use you. That’s why I told you, I don’t think you saw it and I wanted you to know.
Honestly, think about this, when Pino told you that she was mad at Doug for having a mentally unstable person speak?
You sent Today at 2:17 PM
The only person she knew that was speaking for sure was you, she was very worried that you would speak out against her views, she was calling you that and then targeted you. This is how she divides and tears communities apart, she did this to her last community, before moving here.
Its sad how justifies himself
Is it legal? Yes, then there should not be a problem. Right?
Eric Sharplin, The commissionersand others arent nice to you the community is saddened by how the commissioner and Others are treating you. I will boycott ECW and Jaimee Rodgers with you.
sounds like A is listening to W. be the ball. A. publicly stated he hasn't talked to comm underhill in a month.
see how that works out.
must be a brain short circuit to see how everyone doesn't agree with him.
barry was totally in his wheel house to look into this and bring it to the board for discussion. people don't want to talk to A because he doxes them. this supports it yet again. getting quite a reputation.
look up karpman drama triangle aka politics
people put the Q in drama Queen. more interesting than a soap opera yet big $$$ in play and power
but yeah you all on the board attract a lot of lawsuits. my better angel tells me to stay away. attorneys love you.
just balancing the energy in the room.
may be you could revisit the social media policy for commissioners.
Title XLVII
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND CORRECTIONS
Chapter 934
SECURITY OF COMMUNICATIONS; SURVEILLANCE
View Entire Chapter
934.03 Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited.—
(1) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter, any person who:
(a) Intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept any wire, oral, or electronic communication;
(b) Intentionally uses, endeavors to use, or procures any other person to use or endeavor to use any electronic, mechanical, or other device to intercept any oral communication when:
1. Such device is affixed to, or otherwise transmits a signal through, a wire, cable, or other like connection used in wire communication; or
2. Such device transmits communications by radio or interferes with the transmission of such communication;
(c) Intentionally discloses, or endeavors to disclose, to any other person the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subsection;
(d) Intentionally uses, or endeavors to use, the contents of any wire, oral, or electronic communication, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, oral, or electronic communication in violation of this subsection; or
who knows. I don't really know who is " she said he said" actually...hard to follow the alleged wire intercept in chambers. and that's not the topic of the post.
Yes we know you will sort it out.
The sky is not falling.
is that a wire intercept posted here? beware of tangled webs
Pino has torn Pensacola to pieces.
I'm so sorry you have become his next prey, Eric. This is what he does, all day long every day. He'll keep hammering your inbox as long as you keep giving him airtime. He considers himself a Q foot soldier, as crazy as that sounds. He believes he is actually in a war and that his special art is disinformation. Of course he's not very skilled in it, so gets himself jammed up like this.
Next up he'll be trying to blame Sean Bullington or Lutimothy May for it.
And of course the person I was referencing as mentally unstable was Arduini himself. As I have stated publicly many times. He is a very deranged and dangerous individual. That's why so many people I know who are active politically have blocked him and refuse any contact with him. If you stop responding, he will quickly lose interest and go find somebody else to hound.
--Melissa Pino
HaHa these stories write themselves, the story with in the story.
It looks like Arduini knows who took the photo, received it and is admitting it in writing.
Here's your sign.
Eric Sharplin, the guy that took pics of your texts is a real nut case. the police and the Commisioners should handle what he did.
She eats her feelings and takes her misery out on others. Not sorry at all for saying that.
It's pretty easy for Doug Underhill (on ECW) to say he doesn't believe elected officials should take retirement yet he is solidly in the FRS System, getting the same contributions made into his account as the rest. He is not eligible for the 401a because he wasn't recently elected and had already opted for the FRS, which of course I know he plans to take the money when the time comes.
It real easy to call for a vote like that, (not for the elected class) when he knows he can vote a 4 to 1 and try to look like the good guy.
He says he doesn't plan to run again so he will not be eligible for the 401a, (unless by chance he throws his hat in the ring and gets reelected and with in 6 months chooses to get it, if it is even still available.
This is political fodder and he is playing the manure to the adoreing "cult" who can't or won't decipher the difference between what he says, why he does or what he plans to do.
It really is amazing that people can't see that.
I bet Barry knows exactly what he is doing, as well as you.
I know you can watch him in there and the fall out on the board is directly related to his stirring the pot. His followers are mesmerized because it really does sound good.
He will take that retirement like the rest of you.
If not get him on record saying he plans to give it back , I bet he grumbles under his breath and calls you lil boy again.
He is a schemer for sure, when he saw Barry had gone to the ethics committee for clarity, I can just imagine his little he he he, and rubbing his hands together in the back ground and hear his devious mind start to whirl and think.. "I can use this to embarrass Barry."
Let's see how that works out for him.
No body told me this and I didn't get a public record.
It's common sense with a built in internal b/s meter.
Peacock made his fourth(?)drop on ECW, he's sure a gonna miss her, (he had plans.)
so at first he didn't follow county business, now he's an expert.
sure is a lotta hot air blowing around
I am astounded that Ms Ware(Pino) is at this again. She is an evil, spiteful woman. She tried to ruin a very successful career because she was threatened by another woman’s intelligence. She has a history of trying to destroy anyone she sets her sights on. She was not successful in her attacks, the woman is now the Deputy Director of the Fiscal Affairs Department of the International Monetary Fund.
People need to learn to deal with HCP's and also if the one coughing, and taking pictures and being interrogatory and belligerent, is one in the same not only in chambers but online in public is participating ineffective behavior. I hope you find peace.
People's own behavior and choices in life put them in the place they are in, and Fan of Victoria Price AKA Wendy or her spokesman, don't you think you going on escambia citizens watch in public and bringing others in fanned the flames.
We can see Valentino's lawsuit where Doug advises R. to call people "carpet bagger," and trying to get R to post the rumors etc ..how's that working for you?
You started it, remember your articles in the PNJ with you guys texting about Robertson?
Going on BF page page calling DK a fool and on and on?
public social media is not your friend.
Counting down the days also.
That is all.
Alex Arduini you’re the one trying to tear Pensacola to pieces because your fragile ego can’t handle not getting you way. Im pretty sure the board can see you’re a lunatic and everyone with half of a brain sees what you do to them and everyone that doesn’t agree with you.You don’t have anything going for you and that’s why you sit online all day and night scheming and plotting with old ladies online to attack any and everyone that you think will get in your way.you have a sorry pathetic unsuccessful life so you take your failures as a man out on people to hate them. You can’t even provide a decent life for your family because you spend your life online trying to harm people instead of getting a job.you couldn’t even save your house. Get a job loser.
Fanboy Arduini, I had never even heard of Victoria Perry. I googled her.
Are you even aware that she is with the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard?
Do you even know what that is, Alex?
I was in the English Department, and didn't know anybody at the Kennedy School. It's a big place, Alex. Lots of buildings and people doing many different things. In my eight years at Harvard, I don't ever remember entering the Kennedy School complex one time.
Your complete divorce from reality is truly frightening.
I should probably look her up and alert her to your post. She should know that a deranged whack job with possible ties to the insurrection is libeling her.
--Melissa Pino
Jacqueline Rogers this woman will stop at nothing to slander people. Her group tears issues apart next the whole story is taken out of context. its very sad for the county trying to get work done. Ms Janice Gilley be fired was the smartest move The commission did make. I hate when ECW tries stacking the deck with speakers to stall a decision all it does it make the meeting last longer at 3 minutes per speaker
I've alerted the Kennedy School of this activity and asked that they make sure security there is apprised of it.
--------------------------------
Potential Security Alert
Melissa Pino Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 9:16 PM
To: [x]
Cc: Melissa Pino
re: QAnon activity per Professor Victoria Perry
Dear ,
I apologize for directing something security related to your office, but I haven't had my Harvard alum registration current in a long time. My name is Melissa Pino, and I was a teaching fellow and doctoral student in the English Department from 2004 to 2012.
Currently I live in Pensacola, FL, which unfortunately has its fair share of QAnon activity, some of it with potential ties to the insurrection. A local self-proclaimed cult adherent and recruiter named Alex Arduini has been harassing community members, business owners, and government employees and officials here online and with "protest" activity over the last couple of years.
Bizarrely, he just went onto the comments section of a local County commissioner and left the following comment:
----------------------------------
"Fan of Victoria Perry said...
I am astounded that Ms Ware(Pino) is at this again. She is an evil, spiteful woman. She tried to ruin a very successful career because she was threatened by another woman’s intelligence. She has a history of trying to destroy anyone she sets her sights on. She was not successful in her attacks, the woman is now the Deputy Director of the Fiscal Affairs Department of the International Monetary Fund."
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1317770170474039861&postID=2006956247994406450&page=1&token=1624153541373
-----------------------------------
Despite her prominent career, as I have never been in that field I had never heard Professor Perry's name before. Upon googling her, I saw she is a faculty member at the Kennedy School. Needless to say, this is a preposterous fabrication, but I nonetheless wanted to bring it to her attention, as any comment as deranged as this one at least needs to be on the school's radar. I really hope Professor Perry has not been dealing with difficulties out of the QAnon chat rooms, as I have little doubt this is where he picked up her name.
This is the entirety of what he has posted about her on public media that I'm aware of, but generally his tactic is to circulate such nonsense in his various QAnon groups as well. So I wanted to exercise due diligence and ask your assistance to get it passed to security. Although I haven't been back to campus in a few years, I have no doubt Harvard is taking security very seriously these days, and particularly at the Kennedy complex. Most recently, Mr. Arduini intercepted and disseminated personal electric communications during a County Commission meeting, which the local authorities have been alerted to. He frequents Facebook, Instagram, Gab, Parler, and other social media platforms and is in communication with many national Q groups.
Again, I'm sorry to impose on you with this request, but hope you will help facilitate getting it to Kennedy security. If you would have time to acknowledge receipt of this email, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you,
Melissa Pino
I looked up Victoria Perry and I emailed her. She’s never heard of Melissa Wear or Melissa Pino. This has got to be Alex Arduini. You’re the only one that stalks people to find out every little detail of their life lmao Why do you even know Melissa’s maiden name? Do you spend all day and night obsessing over her? Looks like your google research failed. Did you hit on her and she turned you down because your obsession with her is way way way way over the top dude.
Can you stalkers get your stories straight already. One week you say Pino was nothing but a waitress, next week she didn’t go to Harvard, the next week she did, the next week you say she destroyed a whole town while she worked at Harvard and now she’s involved with some chick from the fiscal affairs department. Good god y’all get your life together. Who has time or gives a flying f*** to dig up her life story? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You guys give her so much attention and power in your heads that you’d think she wasTrump!!!!!!
I came to check out this blog since everyone’s talking about the comments and you people are wild here to.
On Escambia citizens watch it’s all about Melissa Pino to. Jacqueline and her boyfriend Alex will be digging up graves of Melissa Pino’s relatives in the middle of the night next to get DNA samples rotflmfao
I came to check out this blog since everyone’s talking about the comments and you people are wild here to.
On Escambia citizens watch it’s all about Melissa Pino to. Jacqueline and her boyfriend Alex will be digging up graves of Melissa Pino’s relatives in the middle of the night next to get DNA samples rotflmfao
Wendy Underhill was spreading that rumor publicly on her Facebook page. She didn't mention the name just that Pino had been in a situation to ruin someone's career at Harvard. She had some of the usual suspects on the thread. Arduini was one of them. This has been sent to Harvard security I see. Conflicts increase. Wendy is commissioner Underhills wife.
https://powerofted.com/drama-triangle/
"Wendy Kinton Underhill
The funny thing is, she fancies herself an intelligent woman. She supposedly WENT TO Harvard (supposedly), but where is her degree from Harvard? Actually, she caused a stink there when she fought against the hiring of a female English professor who was the wife of a professor there. Is anyone else picking up on the pattern here? Melissa Pino absolutely cannot stand when another woman is smarter, prettier, and/or more accomplished than her. It is yet another classic symptom of the Cluster B personality disorders (Borderline and Histrionic, especially). In the past couple of years, she has egregiously attacked: Jacqueline Aimee Rogers, Rayme Edler, County Administrator Janice Gilley, and me, among others. We are all more accomplished than she is. By FAR. The men she has attacked most fervently - Douglas Underhill and Alex Arduini are both intelligent, attractive men with intelligent, attractive wives. A Cluster B chick can't stand it when she is not the most desirable woman in the room (or county - LMAO). For Doug and Alex to NOT be impressed by her eats away at her very being, to the point that she is not able to control herself and keep her cool. She really likes Jeff Bergosh...hmmm... 🤣"
"Alex Arduini
Wendy Kinton Underhill They all need to know, if they don’t already. Godzilla is just a tool."
In their own words written in public.
Those are on Commissioner Underhill Wife's public facebook page.
Classy.
These are the one's stirring up the 401a drama. Quite a collusion going on there.
Jacqueline Rogers and Alex Arduini, Sean Bullington, have you broken into her house yet to take pictures of Melissa Pino while she’s sleeping? Or to find out if her husband is there so you can run to your pages on Facebook to interrogate her about it? Your obsessed enough to do that next.
To “here for the comments”, forget digging her relatives graves for dna, Jacqueline Rogers Alex Arduini and Sean Bullington will be sitting behind her at the next bocc meeting to pluck samples of her hair for dna so they can dig into her an ancestor registry next lololololol
Mr. Peacock should be embarrassed for hanging out on ECW with the obsessive kooks..
I believe that check registry they are looking over now was set up by Commissioner Barry for openness and transparency on the budget.
The people engaging in character assassination with no clue about what they are talking about is hurtful, especially disparaging his ability as financial planner. He was looking out for everybody else in leadership positions, with the 401a item. When he came across it, he researched it and thought about it. I don't have first hand knowledge of this but his reputation as a budget hawk was raked over the coals.
The peanut gallery can be very hurtful. I guess I could get in there blow by blow but quite frankly I don't like the way most of them behave. It doesn't invite sharing of ideas and information.
Barry showed the check register to me a long time ago, but I'm really not a numbers person and was drawn into watching people interact more than anything.
It was when Doug was lying about how much was spent on OLF8 in ECW. I did correct the record on a very few things but exited out of there years ago.
I know Barry can handle and conduct himself with grace under fire, and I think he may be the most powerful one on the dais right now.
We are lucky to have him in service.
Thank you for shouldering the debate the other day.
I also know that dam was on agenda after the 2014 flood and twice both you and Underhill brought the motion and the board voted on it.
Many things are searchable on the website if people want info on projects.
Don't listened to grumbling disgruntled persons. Most are in the place the are in because of choices they have made.
A year later on ECW, Underhill is stating in writing he brought this out and tried to get PNJ to write it and also,that he passed it to Arduini.
So the hunch was correct. He stirred it up.
The funny thing is ECW let one slip in that told them the 401a is legal.
Wonder when he will get kicked off the propaganda page.
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