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| To the members of the general public that by chance happened to read the rant against the county administrator and county leadership yesterday--please know that this one opinion from this one person on Facebook is not representative of the hundreds and hundreds of dedicated employees of Escambia County Public Safety |
Yesterday morning online there was a facebook complaint from an Escambia County Firefighter about fire engines running medical calls. The insinuation/implication infused into the post was that the Escambia BCC created this situation and that citizens should "Call" their commissioners!
Of course most understand that we are the legislative, not the executive. We don't run the departments....Most also understand that during Holiday periods there will be staff that take leave to be with family, go on vacation, etc. And during the holidays sometimes the numbers of calls will spike.
According to a paramedic with whom I spoke yesterday, we had 16 ALS Ambulances staffed and on the road--one short of our normal number. The night before we had 6 ALS units on the road.
But this is all nothing new; and often firefighters respond to medical calls--if there are no ambulances available at a given time.
In fact, the majority of calls that come to fire stations are medical calls.....Again something most everybody knows already. Out here in Beulah it is like 90% of calls are medical calls to station 2.
So it is somewhat peculiar that a paid firefighter would go online and complain about something that happens all the time, in all jurisdictions everywhere. Very few of the calls to the fire stations, statistically speaking, will be structure fires. Most will be medical calls. This is not just here in Escambia County--but nationwide.
The Bottom Line: If you call 911 in Escambia County and you have a medical issue--help will be dispatched, help will be coming in short order. It will be well-trained, dedicated employees on vehicles with lights and sirens....help is coming and folks need to know this.
Nevertheless, some want to make political hay of this during the holidays (and during union negotiation periods) which is disappointing but not surprising.
I don't think the opinion of this one fireman is the opinion of most of the dedicated, hard-working
volunteer and paid firefighters that work in Escambia County--most are team players that want to help folks. They get it--there are mechanical breakdowns that happen and sometimes things don't always go the way we'd like them to. But most of these dedicated men and women do what they do because they have a passion to help people and love their jobs......It's not all of the first responders that HATE the BCC--I think it is basically just this one person who is always upset and triggered so he projects his frustrations on the county staff, the administrator, and the commissioners.
So although I saw the post and who was behind it, knowing the reasons and the political motivations behind the post, I still asked our acting administrator to look into the matter and here is what I received in response:
"1 – How many times has “EMS has no units” occurred?
Does it happen every day? What is the monthly average?
·
Currently this information is not being tracked in our E-911 system
due to a software upgrade in 2016, but Dispatch does send text messages
alerting Supervisors when we have no ambulance units available (see chart
below) for the period of December 1st - December 24th
there were six days in which no ambulances were available for a short
period of time. Averaging less than 1 call per day for the month; however when
no ambulance units are available, all available supervisor vehicles are dispatched
to the scene. There are times when EMS Crews are on hold due to safety
concerns.
2 – How many ambulances does Escambia County have?
·
The County has a total of 32 ambulances in the fleet, however the
daily average is 17 operating during the day shift with a rotating time
schedule and 8 during the evening also with a rotating time schedule.
3 – What is the average daily number of calls for
ambulances?
·
For the period of November 1st - December 26th
the average calls per days were 182 calls.
4 – What is the average ambulance response time?
·
For the period of November 1st - December 26th
average response time due the same time period for an ambulance to being on
scene was 9 minutes and 18 seconds this also include crews being diverted to
higher level acuity calls.
The pictures posted to Facebook stating no ambulance
available was true, however a Supervisor vehicle was in route to the scene
within 3 minutes of the call. The Supervisor was canceled in route by Fire due
to it being an obvious death 3 minutes later. It is not uncommon for an
outlaying ALS firetruck to run an obvious death call. This was implemented
years ago so that an ambulance would not be tied up to pronounce a time of
death."
53 comments:
You just don’t get it. A patient waited 40 minutes for an ambulance this morning. First unit diverted and the ambulance the patient finally received cane from Gulf Breeze. Keep hiding. The new do nothing’s of Escambia County. Your blog is comical and never sees both sides. Keep on lying to yourself.
Having seen eccessive delays first hand, most of my instances were dispatch related. Calls not being sent out as the urgent calls they were, and an ambulance casually rolling up no lights or sirens to a massive heart attack. But the unions going after the BCC isnt right. There are and have been issues with our ems/ambu/fire system for some time on some level.
It always makes me wonder, when someone has to post as Anonymous!!
He see’s it for what it is, smoke and mirrors. The comedy is the yelling “fire” in a crowded theatre. Painting bleak pictures, scaring people for what? Last I checked Fire EMTs and Paramedics are compensated for those skills. Why are they complaining about having to use them? Fire only wants to run fire. If that’s what they want, let’s give that money to EMS. They are hard workers who spend time providing care. They are clearly busy taking care of folks, and not posting fear mongering statements to social media.
You are so out of touch its laughable at this point.
So, you admit that citizens dont have an ambulance available to, I dont know, take them to the hospital as requested? When theres a fire and no truck to respond, due to patient babysitting, then what? What about the other picture the union posted? Dont want that secret getting out?
At what point do you admit that theres underfunding and understaffing, thanks in part to you and the others taking from their reserves for your little projects. Yes, theres a lot of fleet ambulances, but who will staff them?
Glad you used the same source for your other rants about EMS, a disgruntled Employee that we are sure is telling the truth.
I was at dinner in Pace and some guy was running down the escambia county saying the new “girl” was clueless and so was the “old man” helping her. He looked military. He was louder than I would be.
The union is more than one person. Nobody said they didnt want to run the calls. The public needs to be informed of the truth. Not the way you want to spin it.
I always wonder also, Marshall
You all are missing the point. The problem is EMS abuse plain and simple. People are uneducated about what constitutes an emergency. If you look at the screen shots floating around the calls holding are "alpha" level meaning lowest priority. These are people who have a headache, back pain for 3 weeks, sick to the stomach, toothache, etc, etc. These people call for an ambulance day in and day out. They go the the ER only to be wheeled out to the waiting room to wait at the end of the line. Area Ears are busting at the seams with patients that should be at an urgent care or primary care Drs. Office not an ER. We need to put the EMERGENCY back in EMS and ER. The other call are Vehicle accidents usually called in by a passer by. An ambulance responds only to find to uninjured parties waiting on the highway patrol. The problem is cultural the medical system in this country is broken. So if you are waiting for an ambulance fo not blame the EMS or Fire Crews or local government. Blame the homeless alcoholic who goes to the hospital 5 times a week. Or the hyperchondriac who goes to the hospital for burning eyes 7 days a week. Or the person who walks out of an ER because the wait is to long and wants to go to another hospital. Or the freestanding ER transferring a patient to another ER because they have an ultrasound machine but no one to run it. Or blame the person who has a toothache. Or blame the person that is having PMS. These are the people filling ambulances. Not heart attacks, strokes, and trauma. People are not even beneath calling an ambulance making up a complaint and then leaving the ER just to closer to where they needed to be. So please do not hesitate to call for an ambulance but please don't abuse our first responders and Emergency Rooms.
Anon 9:27--back up your claim with specific facts. Where was this patient and what was the nature of the emergency? You are claiming NO first responder arrived for 40 Minutes?!? I think you are lying; I do not believe you. Post the location, when the first call came in, which stations were toned for the call, and which one arrived first to provide assistance. I do not believe it was 40 minutes for any first response. Anon 10:23 Opinions vary, yours is NOT the majority opinion, LOL. Seriously--where do I have any of this wrong? Did staff provide information that was incorrect? Am I wrong about the % of medical calls? (hint: NO, I'm not) Nah, I sense you are nothing but an apparatchik for the union, carrying their water for them. Good for you, make yourself useful!
Just because there may have been a first responder there does not negate the fact that what a patient may need is beyond the scope of their care. First responders in fire engines, brush trucks, SUVs, or personal vehicles cannot take the patient to the place they need to be - the hospital (definitive medical care where a physician can diagnose medical conditions). You miss the entire point. Your citizens have to wait far too long and you do not seem to care. Make yourself useful and do the right thing.
No where did the union post say no one was coming. Your political ability to twist it in your favor. What if the other side of the house was a fire. Say, waiting for 40 minutes for a firetruck. We could just send a supervisor vehicle and everything would be fine, right?
Keep trying. You're only burying yourself more.
Now your getting to them and giving real facts in their propaganda. We would all love an immediate ambulance response whenever we felt we had an emergency. Your sowing some of the lowest acuity level of medical need and an obvious death had delayed response. Yeah you can push this as a non-caring or poorly functioning system but it’s just the opposite. I’d bet these patients would experience a wait time much greater at any of our emergency rooms.
Anonymous 10:41 well illustrates what this whole campaign is about “patient babysitting”. It’s a common term used by these firefighters. They believe they are too high and mighty to respond to these low acuity calls. It’s disgusting that they then want to use these same patients as pawns in their game.
Haha. Bobbing and weaving. Do nothing Escambia BOCC. You act smarter than the rest of us so do your own research. Gave you the tools. Use them. And yes, 40 minutes before a paramedic arrived!!
It used to be that government work provided a very good retirement, great time off for family, but not as high wages as private employment. Now, these guys want the platinum retirement plus higher wages than private employers plus generous time off, not to mention selling leave back for tens of thousands of dollars. Like many in this area, I retired from the military after 25 years. Military only get 2.5 % of base pay (much lower than actual pay) First responders get 3% of high 5. I’m not taking away from the men and women who help
our sick neighbors, but I was overseas for many years, away from home for my entire career, in real danger for much of my deployments and I come home to people whining about their pay being low ( let’s be honest, that’s what all of this is about). So an 18 year old comes home from the military after 25 years as a Chief and gets 3k a month. EMT/Firefighters after 25 years gets 75% of average pay (which includes overtime, which they all work to make their pay higher, something the military doesn’t get), which averages around 70,000 a year and translates to $4,400.00 per month retirement a year at 43 years old, plus selling back leave etc, etc. Almost 1,500 more than a military retiree. Not bad for never leaving your hometown or going to get a college degree. Again, I respect their work helping our sick neighbors, but as a now private sector employee/taxpayer, I don’t think we as taxpayers can afford to pay the blank check raises these guys are posturing for. I understand they have also gotten 3% raises every year for the last 8 years (not so for the private sector) and they still complain. They get much more than private sector employees ever could hope for in terms of pay, retirement, time off, job security etc, etc. They are going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg and the county/state will be forced to outsource these services, thereby saving billions of taxpayer dollars in state retirements. I am also sick of the whining.
Anon 12:50: I whole heartedly agree with you. Thank you for your unselfish service to us all.
Commissioner Bergosh, for someone who doesn't care about our Public Safety, you have certainly expended a lot of time and attention lately to ascertain what the real challenges are and to attempt to rectify some things that you have deemed wrong. Thank you for your efforts. The saddest thing about the strong-arm "What Will It Take" campaign is that it does fool some of the public, and detracts from honest conversations about the challenges in our Public Safety, and how to best address them.
My takeaway on the anonymous post about pay from ex military--thank you for your service--is that it's not so much an argument against paying our Escambia responders more, but a powerful statement that our servicepeople don't get paid nearly enough. :( Just my opinion, we do need to bump salaries for our first responders in Escambia. I know the benefits are great, compared with other areas, but those don't put food on the table in the here and now, which shuts a lot of people off from the ability to pursue their chosen calling. There is no reason, though, that pay can't be raised at the same time cost-saving efficiencies are implemented.
So the Fire union heads have finally come around that running the engines out of the trucks on alpha and bravo medical calls isn't the brightest idea. As I understand it, the plan in place to supplement EMS ambulances with Fire medics in our outlying districts--is it four of them, where the Fire medics are concentrated? That's an honest question--is not an "emergency" or "fall-back" plan for "bad days"...it's the way the thing is set up to work.
It seems pretty clear that needs to be re-examined. (1) Could we beef up EMS salaries and staff and get more of those ambulances out there? (2) Should we take a look at why large engine are responding to medical calls?
Some smart people who have had long and successful careers as first responders have stated that the best thing would be to consolidate the departments, trim top-heavy and ineffective leadership, do more cross-training, and introduce more agility to the medic vehicles, whether EMS or Fire. I've heard people in both EMS and Fire voice fear about such an arrangement, as there is so much mistrust now built up between the two departments. That's a leadership issue. Put the right leaders in the right places and such a reorg could be very effective, it would seem.
As it stands now, though, the anti-BOCC Fire Union saga is distracting away from personnel issues that don't seem entirely of the policy makers' doing. It needs a strong hand in administration, and middle managers and boots on the ground should be consulted for ideas in both departments.
(1)
(Part 2)
What's that TV show where the CEO's dress up in a moustache and baseball cap to visit their stores and figure out why their company is bleeding its bottom line? Same story every time. Talk to the people who *aren't* in high-level positions. Middle managers who have risen to a level of authority but still have their hands in the fire and their boots on the ground. Talk to the mechanics. Consult the medics--all of the medics--first and foremost. Is that happening?
Again, so many citizens are supportive of Ms. Gilley's efforts and empathetic to what she had to clean up upon coming to the County. We really need Public Safety answers first and foremost in 2020. We need a Fire Chief; we need a dedicated head of Public Safety.
Per the above data, although it's a heck of a lot more than the half-baked crap that got posted over on the Fire Union page (I think the screen shot of Jonathan Owens's phone was my favorite), it was nonetheless disappointing that the new software doesn't allow for pulls of things that should be simple to grab. Surely, there is a way to finesse that software to provide the answers you were looking for. We shouldn't have to rely on text messages with all the money this County has laid out for Public Safety software over the last few years. In addition, it would be good to have the info for "on hold" from the 25th through the 27th, as well. The whole picture is necessary in order to assess the Union's claims, and, if there were any inadequacies in EMS response during those days, to figure out why and fix it.
None of that will solve the EMS staffing issue that I pointed out to the Fire Union Facebookers (why are they allowed to run amok against the County's social media policy?), who then immediately reversed course and said "it isn't the trucks, it's the staff" (blowing with the wind, per usual). Hopefully someone in EMS will correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe we lost 3 more medics and 3 more EMT's over the course of the last two weeks, and to the best of my understanding we are having trouble recruiting new medics in. Hopefully you can continue to work with administration to figure out exactly why that is. Pay isn't always the only problem, or even the most pressing one.
--Melissa Pino
oh Jeffery my Jeffrey, you really have tried blowing smoke with this one. it's humerus, see what I did there, that you would post numbers such as these. how about you break down the data? what you're not telling the people is that in amongst this "9 min" response time is the fact that an EMS unit calls in a crash or other incident and has an on scene time of about 30 seconds. so that being said, this data is presented, with a curve. kinda like when teachers grade on the curve. you should be way familiar with that. also, this data is for ONE MONTH. did you tell them that when an EMS unit gets reassigned to a call that the timer "starts over"? bet you didn't. let me educate you.
sue calls 911 for her husband having chest pains and diff breathing. Unit 1 gets the call at 0800 but gets diverted at 0805 to another call. Unit 2 gets the call now, a "new incident", and their en route time is now 0805. Uh oh, Unit 2 gets diverted at 0810. Unit 3 now gets the call and there en route time is now 0810. Remind you the original call was placed at 0800. Sue has waited for 10mins now and the unit is still en route. Savvy?
Now a fire, FIRE, engine gets dispatched. can the engine get their sooner, depends. now, the FIRE engine makes contact, guess what, that engine is out of service for a fire. and now the fact remains that Sue's husband has been waiting going on 15min from the time of her call.
so you see this "9 min response" time you herald is not all together solid or "factual". Also, some years ago the then BOCC voted to increase the "standard 8 min response" to 10 mins because they didn't want ems to look bad. EMS couldn't meet it due to the same issues they are dealing with now; low morale, understaffed, lower pay, increased call volume, etc. so the BOCC, decided to lower the standard to make it look better instead of fixing the issue and making EMS a premier program that it can and should be.
so you see your spin on this data is derelict and defunct. nice try though! you almost had them fooled!
Unions going after the BCC? what does that mean? The union is trying to get better staffing and yes pay, to recruit and retain personnel. The turnover rate at EMS is crazy and now I hear that several have applied to surrounding felt's for better pay, benefits and retirement options.
you strut like a banty rooster when you're actually sticking your head in the sand like am ostrich. Your fast you asked for is correct however, the way it is presented is incorrect. It is good data but it's dirty data. there are variables that shouldn't be included in the equation. and it's for ONE MONTH.
Notice this was started up a few days ago and Underhill commented and blamed it on Bear. He probably had one of his followers post the professional firefighter page on ECW because he wanted to stir the pot and suck everyone's attention and energy like a black hole and Gradia thinks that's helpful to the cause. Then Doug plans to say something brilliant, like it's everyone's corrupt fault but him and many people will look at him in awe and think he is the caped crusader flying in to save the day.
Anonymous 10:57 Seems to be relaying that D2 Underhill is publicly discrediting Administrator Gilley and Mr. Maygarden
staff didn't provide you with wrong info/data, you didn't ask the right questions. you sneaky, sneaky. You took data and made it look good when it has variables in the equation that taint the data. Have yourself some water. you have to be cotton-mouthed with all the yarn you're spinning.
Why won't they talk to you in the sunshine on your facebook page? Are they in negotiations trying to get the public to call in for them?
Commissioner Bergosh, the solution to this problem is
(1) transparency;
and
(2) equal application of County policy.
--Transparency: not happening.
--Equal application of County policy and due procdess: not happening, nor was it happening under the previous administration.
Of course that has been the Escambia way for a long, long time. Just shove it under the rug.
Please help end that time.
Continue to ask for the data, and don't let whoever wherever in the County cherry pick or averagizish the data for you. Just get the facts and offer solutions to solve the problem.
Also, ask that the pertinent staff be at the upcoming meeting to be available to anwser questions:
--Williams
--Ammons
--Dosh
--Morris
--Edler
--Still
--Maygarden
--Maddrey
--Ritter
ALL of these individuals need to be brought to the podium. Please let's not worry about time, for once. Just drag this stuff into the light, however long it takes.
And press the County Attorney's office for what the hell is going on. There's nothing happening that Alison doesn't know about.
--Melissa Pino
Anonymous 5:47,
“We need to show a delay and need for more trucks,” That was in an email from Michael Jenkins of EMS earlier this year. Now here you are saying that the clock starts over..... so which is it? Are they manipulating the time to reflect longer response times or starting the clock over? If starting over then how can they prove the need for more trucks? Confusing.....
also from remember Gradia spinning the library MSBU could fund a fire house last year on ECW in D1, which it can't plus Underhill trying to sneak over 2 million for his golf cart side walk to his private beach from LOST that you all caught (after being alerted to the agenda item)
When Underhill spins rhetoric about using money for public safety don't people know he was pushing for roundabouts for doners and a golf cart path for himself? Apparently not by the wide eyed supporters thanking him.
Can't people just be real and factual and present solutions, perhaps thank the BOCC (taxpayers) for the new firetrucks last year. Crying wolf by the IAFF is not good for trust and negotiations.
So what about the medical director and this https://www.floridabar.org/the-florida-bar-journal/floridas-expanded-anti-slapp-law-more-protection-for-targeted-speakers/
A 911 call comes in. A unit is assigned. The unit could be at the ER delivering a patient yet they are assigned the call. So it appears that the call is not "holding". It could be a delay of up to 10 mins. Up to. Now, that unit gets en route to said call. While en route if they get diverted to a closer or higher priority call the call they were on is re-assigned to another unit and that units en route time is now the new en route time. Mind you the original call was placed quote a few minutes ago. The "Sue" example is the best way I can explain it. Now, they will send a BLS or ALS fire unit to "stop the clock". There is a great percentage of these calls where the FD doesn't have any effect on the outcome whether ALS or BLS. The data will show that as The Berg puts it, a first responder arrived. If a fire engine is tied up with a non-critical patient just to show a timely response and a fire or extrication it another med call EMS can't get to on a timely fashion, goes out and that engine is normally assigned to go they cannot. If they did it would be patient abandonment. Now another engine from further way is assigned increasing response time to the fire or extrication, etc. It's a numbers game. Risk management/gambling at its finest. The policies are written that way due to lack of personnel and apparatus.
You know what else The Berg is not telling y'all? The little radius pictograph he published about being w/in 5 miles of a fire station is a lie. It's not a radius, it's ACTUAL ROAD MILES. If you live further than 5 road miles from a fire station, you essentially live "without" fire protection according to ISO.
*THE MORE YOU KNOW*
To the anonymous poster at 1:09 PM: the insinuation that Bergosh is *actively* misinforming the public about EMS call times is laughable. As if he's got a lock on what is happening, knows it down to the last dot, and has devised a way to dupe the public on it. That's the type of absurdity we've come to expect from the Fire union leaders.
You're attacking the one commissioner who is driving at an understanding of what ails our public safety, while he himself is hitting transparency road blocks at every turn. Have you even been following the blogs? Aren't you worried about the lack of due process he's pursuing? Mark my words, if it could happen to one County employee, it could happen to you. But that doesn't matter for the money, does it. So Fire union leaders continue to demonize every attempt he makes at obtaining the straight dope and making it public.
I called Public Safety Friday to PRR call times and learned that administration had already asked for it. I didn't want to task people with more work and didn't pursue it further. So Public Safety hands off data to admin, it goes through admin to Bergosh, he posts it on his blog to make it available--in a matter of a few hours--and this is all part of his dastardly attempt to fool the public. And this is precisely why so many of us can't take the "what will it take" campaign seriously.
Here's something to consider: for a long time in this County, the BOCC has often been the last to know about things they should have been apprised of from the get-go. On countless issues in the last year, spanning multiple divisions, they've learned of scenarios they were not looped on. It was some pretty stellar information silo'ing, an A-1 job. And while this can happen even in corporations with no Sunshine component, the BOCC can't talk to each other. They have to communicate *through administration and legal*, and trust that the communication is getting through. It is mind-blowing how many times our commissioners have honestly not known about something that was widely known among County staff.
Are you aware that, prior to the current admin, there was a strict edict that many division leads were not to speak directly with any BOCC? Think about that. You're the head of, say, HR. And a commissioner has tasked you, through admin, for something. You draw it up. Pass it to admin. Did it get passed up the chain? Commissioner might be silo'd off by admin. How would you know? Don't you think that situation might have had some impact on the current public safety challenges?
While the data produced on the call holds wasn't sufficient, it was a helpful start. Who else is pursuing this info and willingly making it available to the public? (Gee, at least we'll always have Jonathan's screen shots.) Fire union leadership is really shooting themselves--and their members--in the foot by attacking a commissioner who is honestly trying to get to the bottom of things. Think what Fire could accomplish if its leadership changed tack and worked *with* "The Berg" instead of a pointless attempt at a smear campaign, which most citizens see through.
So which commissioners are you relying on to line up with you? Doug doesn't count; he's a 1-4. Which 2 among the other 3 are you counting on to champion your cause at this point? Are you banking on a couple to throw Bergosh under the bus to throw roses at your feet? Man, that's one heck of a dice roll. And sadly, if union leads would quit acting like thugs, stop trying to choke out the volunteers, get off their fear campaign, and start acting like responsible leaders, he'd probably be the first person to listen to all sides and try to negotiate something that everyone could be happy with.
I wouldn't bank on the thermometers blowing up on ECW. Time to get smart, guys. Because it doesn't seem like Commissioner Bergosh is going to quit until he gets to the bottom of things.
*THE MORE YOU KNOW.*
--Melissa Pino
LOL
In case anyone is wondering what the other two people running for D1 will say on record about public safety it will be something like this: "I support public safety"
ECW you are a joke.
Commissioner Bergosh your willingness to get to the bottom of this is noted and appreciated.
He has tainted data. The response times are all inclusive if you will. They are skewed because all he got was response times in general. As stated, there are on scene times of less than 2 minutes due to a unit rolling up in a call, etc. Take out those variables and it all changes.
He has no knowledge of how PS works and apparently doesn't care to. He had a knee jerk reaction to the Facebook post and tried to show how good it is. It ain't.
He posed this question as the title to his blog, Why the Online Complaints about Escambia EMS Units--from an Employee of Public Safety?!?
Because they are sick and tired of getting shafted year after year. The BOCC has always pacified PS. It seems they are scared to spend money on PS when it gets down to the brass tacks.
You need to drag in the ones that let it get this way however, they no longer work there. Also, careful what you ask for. It's worse than you know.
The one faulty part of your whole argument is that EMS does not use fire arrival times to stop the clock. It’s measured in EMS arrival time. So the FD has to respond to a citizen having a medical issue? Is that really the complaint? Good. There budget is larger than EMS and EMS is required every single day. Fires make up less than 1% of the daily public safety response mission and is complaining about aiding citizens. Fire departments all across the nation respond to medicals. The city of Pensacola pulls this off without blasting misinformation on FB.
So the fire union is complaining about having to provide an essential service (providing first response) to a citizen in need. What this recent post should being to light is the fact that FDs budget is larger than EMS but the main Punic safety response every single day is EMS. Fires make up less than 1% if the daily Escambia County public safety mission and here the union is complaining about having to assist a citizen? Pensacola FD provides this service at a far expanded level than does ECFR. What this post should being to light is that FD should be responding to more medicals and providing manpower to assist EMS, divert them to move serious calls or pull manpower from FD units to place more EMS units in service. EMS did provide an answer to help solve some of this issue with innovative tier response utilizing BLS and ALS ambulances. Before you cry that service has been downgraded, it hasn’t. The vast majority of evidence shows that ALS provides no meaningful difference in outcomes in the vast majority of emergencies. Not in cardiac arrests, active shooters or you standard medical call. Stand up more BLS units and your Paramedic units can be deployed to calls where they can really make a difference. Our previous chief did that. He worked a long time with state agencies, our medical director and from what I understand the BCC to bring an innovative system to Escambia that worked great. It worked so great that systems across Florida copied it. Places like NYC run 50% BLS ambulances, Boston runs mostly BLS ambulances. Our current administration won’t actively deploy them to FD has to pick up the slack. Again I say, good. It was the FD Chief/“EMS” Chief (I use quotes in EMS Chief because he was anything but) started to dismantle our department. Our new Chief is afraid to even call himself a Chief, he won’t actively staff BLS trucks. Probably scared of the unions and the doc behind the closed door. Things are a mess.
Who do you think let it get this way, because what get overlooked was our EMS department had become a professional place that people wanted to work. Our staffing had soared, people stopped leaving in large numbers, our Chief was transparent with information. In fact we increased the number of ambulances on the road from an average of 9 to almost 17 daily. We got consistent protocols, updated training, leadership opportunities and then our chief left. Not sure why, but rumor has it that he was tired of unethical behavior at the administrator level and being blocked by the PS director. Then Jack Brown makes the Fire Chief our EMS Chief. Did the board approve that? I am asking because I don’t know. But a fire chief with no EMS background and a medical director who both systematically tore down our department. They put our protocols in disarray instead of fixing a typo, ended our training, dismantled our officers, and created a culture of fear. Our BLS trucks are actively getting staffed. They only get staffed now when we have left over people, not actively trying to get them in service. Can you blame people for wanting to leave? Nobody wants to work somewhere where if you aren’t drinking buddies with the medical director, or if you criticize her to the wrong person then bam you are being brought in for QA with her crony board. We have no leadership. Our chief can’t even call himself a chief, he’s afraid to make promotions or repair the damage. The EMS Union is not protecting employees because they were in on the attempted coup. Matt’s not part of the union so they have made it clear many times they have no interest even though it could happen to any of us dues paying members. So summary, copied protocols, a vigilante medical director, no leadership, a union that turns its back. Why would people stay?
Keep at it sir. I am tried of sitting in my station doing while an EMS crew goes by to help someone just a mile from where our station is. This whole “what if there is a fire” is so overblown. The probability that the maybe one fire a day that we get is at the exact same time and the exact same fire district are so low as to be laughable. Even if that was to happen, we could leave one fire fighter with medical equipment with the patient and go to the fire. Every fire engine has 3 or 4 fire fighters. Even if just 2 left and went to the fire, 2 can do a lot, esp if we train on it. 2 fire fighters on a rescue with no water recently made entry and saved someone with no other fire apparatus on-scene. You see 2 in 2 out doesn’t apply when a life is in danger. No it’s not ideal, but it’s also not ideal having only 2 EMS employees trying to care for people. They go on all the time about 4 FFs is better than 3. Well 3 or 4 medical providers is better than 2. It expedites care when you have more hands. It’s safer for the crews and the patient (remember those- the patients we are supposed to help). Would you rather have 2 tired EMS employees carrying your mom in a stretcher down the front porch of 2 EMS and 3 FFs? Which is safer? Keep it up commish and don’t by into the misinformation. Also, why don’t we have a new Chief? A professional Chief?
When I say "stop the clock", it stops the clock that someone has gotten there. All it does it shows that medical aid has gotten there. So now a fire engine is tied up with a patient that needs transport to the hospital. All fire has done is make patient contact, stopped the clock essentially. A majority of the time the FD waits with the patient until EMS arrival, they get there and they transport the patient. The FD has essentially done nothing for the patient.
Commissioner Bergosh, I'd like to add a couple of comments that I made on the Fire union page here. On data manipulation:
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I want to respond in earnest on your comment about Fire manipulating the data in Jeff Bergosh's blog.
*Nowhere* did I say that, or even think it. And I'm truly sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think anybody in Fire would have even been in the loop on that.
Let me be more specific. I called Public Safety on Friday and spoke with Kelly Goade about putting in a records request on the on hold stuff. She told me that administration had put in a request already so that I could decide if I wanted to spend the money on a duplicate request (despite claims to the contrary, I don't get my PRRs for free). She also explained that the woman who would generally handle the data request was out that day--I assume that's Lindsay Ritter, who, as I understand it, has the most expertise on the data systems of anybody in Public Safety.
So someone else got tasked with compiling the data, which then must have gone to administration, and from there to Commissioner Bergosh. I'm sure that everybody following this string is aware that there have been a few transparency issues brewing on the subject of providing Bergosh with the documentation he has been requesting, in an attempt to figure out where and why people's due process might have been violated. So forgive me if I don't just assume that the raw data was handed over to him. Perhaps that is exactly what Public Safety compiled, but even then the person who usually would have handled it was out.
I hope that makes it more clear what I was pushing back on--the idea that this whole thing was a set-up by Bergosh to fool the public with what's going on. If anything, he's the only one I see at the moment willing to try to inject some badly-needed transparency into some of these situations.
What I said--what I meant--about the data that was laid down in the other post, the screen shots of the calls, is that it was *insufficient*. And I did not say that the data in Jeff's blog was "manipulated," I *agree* with Fire that it isn't good enough. But at the same time we need a more complete picture, it was at *least* enough to demonstrate the process of how some of this stuff works and that "oh hold" alone is not cause for a 4-alarm panic.
If the system is set up wrong, if the ordinance isn't right, then imagine if the response from Fire would have been "Thank you Commissioner what you might not understand is that what you have laid out here demonstrates exactly what we have been trying to say." Instead of nasty negative anonymous comments about him trying to game Fire and the public with his blog post. Some of us are grateful that he's entering the dialogue and trying to wrap his arms around what the problems might be. And I can't understand why the union leaders wouldn't capitalize on an engaged commissioner to try to have some reasonable conversations.
A second one, on divisiveness. --Melissa Pino
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I guess where the two of us disagree is that the entire "what will it take" campaign is rooted in divisiveness. Even if a person is okay with the wedge it attempts to insert between the BOCC and the public--why isn't administration included in the rants?--what pains me the most is the impact on morale it has on our EMS. Afterthoughts about "family" and asterisks on how "this has nothing to do with personnel" simply cannot neutralize that horrible takeaway of this campaign that "It's EMS that's broken! And that's hurting Fire!"
Even if that were the case, is that really the best way to be going about things?
I care very deeply about some of our first responders on the EMS side, and worry a lot about their long hours and their morale as they are slogging through them. I hear how absolutely exhausted and drained they are after coming off a long shift, short staffed. And I can't imagine what it's like with the hours firefighters are running--the stories that I get on that are just brutal. This needs to be fixed. :( But it's never going to happen out of the "What Will It Take" debacle, and so I guess somehow administration and the BOCC will have to work around the Fire union if anything positive is to develop. And it doesn't have to be that way.
Anonymous 6:35 is the voice we need to hear. Pay attention.
Looks complicated but it seems Edler and Nail did (do) more harm then good.
Anybody look up the bio on the rescue one company and notice one of them is into water craft racing..things that make you go hmmmmm.
I’d have to agree with you on everything except for as it relates to Steve. He started great and had us going in the right direction with a lot of enthusiasm behind him. Then gold stars, a big table with him at the head. Did you notice even had a bigger chair. Got to big for his britches. I do wish he’d stayed the course he began with.
The Medical Director and her cronies, which we know are well known party & drinking buddies, are the source of the turmoil. I’m sure the Rusted Nail is still giving advice too.
That’s a cheap shot if I ever saw one. To big for his britches because he had a table for meetings and brass? Oh my gosh he sat at the head of his table? You mean the chair he sat in on all day long was chosen to be a comfortable one? Did you also notice the deputy chief also had one on the other end of the table? Did you also notice that he had meetings at that table almost all day? Every time I walked by he was meeting with someone. Every time I went to meet with him he always left his desk to meet with me at that table which I appreciated. It felt more open. And besides he got that table when he first got there. I walked in to ask him a question and it was there. I once walked in on him around midnight working on something big, budget I think, and he sat at that table with me for an hour to talk with me about an issue and later followed up with me personally. Never felt rushed or that I was keeping him. So no I am not going to let you take a cheap shot. By the way have you been to the fire chiefs office with his custom, much larger table and chair at the head? Is he to big for his britches? What I know is that we were in such dire straights when he arrived that we voted for a union, he set on a good course and now look at us? Who’s fighting for us?
“Out here in Beulah it is like 90% of calls are medical calls to station 2.” Is like 90%??? Why don’t you actually do some research and do something about EMS response times instead of running your mouth?
And that’s how the White Shirts separated from the rest of us.
"Here's something to consider: for a long time in this County, the BOCC has often been the last to know about things they should have been apprised of from the get-go. On countless issues in the last year, spanning multiple divisions, they've learned of scenarios they were not looped on. It was some pretty stellar information silo'ing, an A-1 job. And while this can happen even in corporations with no Sunshine component, the BOCC can't talk to each other. They have to communicate *through administration and legal*, and trust that the communication is getting through. It is mind-blowing how many times our commissioners have honestly not known about something that was widely known among County staff."
Excellent point and it is spot on however, the reason that BOCC members were unaware was the fact that some shay crap, IMO, was occurring. PSD Weaver at the time was drawing a picture on a dry erase board. Issues would be brought to him and they would stop with him.
Regardless of anyone's opine about edler and nail, they began to ask why? Why this? Why that? Why did? Feathers got ruffled and the smear campaign began. I honestly believe they have/had PS best interest at heart. Protocols were instructed to be distributed on thumb drives that were not protected all the while the EMS chief (lol) at the time was aware. That's the tip of the iceberg. The lack of training, falsification of training records, etc. Cronies have been mentioned. Do you not think they exist on both sides of the issue? There are cronies right now that are still, still loyal to white, salter, bonoyer and weaver. Just wait on the results from the investigation.
Just like Pino has asked questions and gotten answers and has felt the verbal wrath from both sides of this issue, so are edler and nail. Why the fingers are being pointed at them I don't know. Seems to me that if a person takes s job with as much responsibility as they have/had, you would begin to ask how the system works, why it works that way, who does what in that system etc. Do you not find it peculiar that all these things were brought to light only AFTER they were in charge? Maybe just maybe they began to peel the onion. How would they be responsible for what is happening now? The policies they came up have exposed the weaknesses in our current system. Much like a pro sports team, a new coach or OC, DC, etc comes in and begins to implement their ideals in the system, people begin to get hurt feelings, start opposition and what not. The door is always open to leave if you feel the policies are egregious. Also, file a grievance with the union if something doesn't sit right and follow up with your chain of command.
Step back and look at the big picture. PS is being scrutinized. The BOCC knows but doesn't understand the process/functionality of PS, only one of the most important functions of the County. If the BOCC would take one day, heck, half a day, to see how it operates and why, I feel this wouldn't be such an issue every time it's brought up.
Your premise is flawed. Chest pain with dyspnea is a Delta level call. The unit would only divert if an Echo level call came in and that was the closest ambulance. Respiratory arrest and cardiac arrest are the only Echo level calls so the odds of diverting the first ambulance are slim.
To the anonymous poster at December 31, 2019 at 12:06 PM.
"Just like Pino has asked questions and gotten answers and has felt the verbal wrath from both sides of this issue."
Interesting positioning. From where I sit, it's far less "verbal wrath" and much more about being sued.
By a government official.
Against, in my simple opinion--and I'm not a lawyer--state statute.
That said, I do appreciate that you have voiced recognition that what I have been driving at is answers. And, moreover, that I've gotten some important answers.
"Verbal wrath" means squat to me--it doesn't bother me in the slightest and doesn't give me a bit of pause. Water off a duck's back. And I believe that the number of people who see through what's happening here are far greater than the number who are participating in it. I would imagine the numbers who are willing to participate in what's happening are dwindling every day.
Mike Weaver's dry erase board? How about Rusty Nail's dry erase emails, that previous administration was privy to?
"It stopped at Mike." Well now, there you just show yourself ignorant of how it might have been stalled from Mike to the commission.
**How about the emails where Mike Weaver was a PRETEND cc but then didn't actually get cc'd on the email. Such as with the big BS "we've got some reforms that people aren't paying attention to" coming from Nail's cry fount with a memorandum circulated claiming that Mike Weaver wouldn't respond where they dropped him from the email. Nasty tactics, there.
Also, I just love the disingenuous comment about how if people didn't like it, they could "take it to the union." Are. You. Kidding. Me. I don't even need to say anything else beyond those unions stopped operating for the best of their members a long time ago, in my opinion.
New leads were just "asking questions."
--Asking questions is not trying to arrange an illegal sole source procurement."
--Asking questions is not trying to manipulate call times counter to county ordinance.
--Asking questions is not blowing smoke about protocols while, to the best of my understanding, there are NO new protocols, other than, to the best of my understanding, appropriated protocols from Santa Rosa life guard.
At bottom, here's the thing: I'm being sued through this context, and while that's unfortunate, I will not stand down. I would not have wished this to happen, but good use will be made of it.
Public record: the Court has now ruled against all 5 of the plaintiff Dr. Rayme Edler's injunctive asks. No opinion there. Just record.
Here's to 2020. Let's call it the Year of Transparency.
Cheers,
--Melissa Pino
Great news on the ruling of all five injunctions over ruled on the Edler vs Pino case. One -- they were about a public official and concerns on a site that looks into such things as well as comments on public news sites. First amendment.
Two -- I believe they were true.
Three -- Edler was asking for an injunction for something Pino didn't do.
Four -- posted an in confidence text herself then cried about it and placed blame where it did not belong.
This is just obvious from reading the public record on the case online.
Now Edler states the case has nothing to do with the county commissioners. Well yes it does. In my opinion, as far as most anyone call tell.
And it's pretty obvious who supplied the screen shots from 2018. You know who you are. So does everyone else following this case.
How nasty can one get. Think about that -- other citizen watchers, would YOU like to be sued for stating your opinions and facts?
Underhills must be behind this too and made it obvious by tagging Edler in public posts and publicly posting he was going to the hearing. Who were the first to donate to the go fund me? yes everybody saw that.
He's getting some payback though.
This is out of hand.
If the medical director will do that then anything else she does is questionable as well as the ones she is consorting with.
Vote of no confidence there.
Read it for yourselves. It is on the Escambia clerk site.
It has shut down public discourse until now.
Sounds like a toxic individual to the observer. Underhill may have used her but his fingerprints are all over this.
However Commissioner Bergosh, I hope this doesn't backfire, you are dealing with some hard core selfish people looking out for number one, themselves.
Yeah I know. My point was to explain the reassigning of units. This particular example is a Delta level call. The diversions still occur even with the Delta calls but not as frequently of course. My point is the reassigning shows a shorter response time when in actuality it is not. Especially from the time the call was received. The data he showed is tainted with calls other than ones placed from a residence or business requesting a unit for a patient. Skewed response times from time of the CALL RECEIVED. Stop being obtuse.
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