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I am one member of a five person board. The opinions I express on this forum are mine only, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Escambia County Staff, Administrators, Employees, or anyone else associated with Escambia County Florida. I am interested in establishing this blog as a means of additional transparency to the public, outreach to the community, and information dissemination to all who choose to look. Feedback is welcome, but because public participation is equally encouraged, appropriate language and decorum is mandatory. Although this is not my campaign site for re-election--sometimes campaign related information will be discussed, therefore in an abundance of caution I add the following :








Thursday, December 17, 2020

County's Ethics and Compliance Investigation into ECFR Contacting Volunteers' Employers is Closed

In a particularly infamous scene from King Kong--the beast shakes a giant log knocking multiple people off a cliff to their deaths...King Kong didn't want them around so he "knocked them off the log"

I requested a meeting with Administrator Janice Gilley and attorney Alison Rogers yesterday afternoon.

The topic was an investigation into why a county fire official, Craig Ammons, called the employer of several dozen volunteer firefighter candidates in 2019--leading to many of them not being able to serve as volunteer firemen in our community.

The seven page document I received is a quick read;  although it is a public record, the cover requests that it not be disseminated and therefore I will not link it.

The issue stems from several volunteer trainees being told they had to resign, after an official with ECFR called their employer to get clarification on whether or not these particular employees could volunteer with the fire department.  There were concerns that an "unwritten" policy might have been in place with this particular employer which prevented certain employees of this employer from volunteering.

But the investigation revealed there was no such existing written policy.  Upon being called about this--the safety officer of this employer had to check with his direct superior, who then in turn had to check with the his superior in a different part of the country.

The big boss--once contacted--eventually said "not just no, HELL no they can't be volunteer firemen." according to the report.  

And so that is the end of a steady stream of young, energetic volunteers.  What a shame.

My contention all along was simple:  Why are we calling volunteers' employers?  Is that our jobs, to be babysitters of grown men and women?  Is that the protocol? Is it a violation of privacy?  Is it potentially a privacy act violation?  I mean---why do it??

According to the report---this was not and is not our policy (calling volunteers' bosses).  This led to the Administrator questioning why this happened, and why our employee made that call which led to the turning away of  nearly 20 volunteer trainees.  "What concern was it of his whether these people volunteered?" was her question.

As a result of this matter, the official stance going forward is that ECFR will not contact the employers of volunteer candidates;  as should have been the case in the first place--we need to let grown men and women who want to volunteer do just this----and we ought to let them work it out with their employer as this is between them and their employer.

Otherwise this has the unseemly appearance of another attempt by some within ECFR of discouraging volunteers, which in turn costs us more money in personnel expenditures necessary to hire full-time paid firemen.  Although some in ECFR hate it---we are a combination department.  

After reading this report--my opinion is that there was a deliberate attempt to discourage these men and women from volunteering with our fire service.  Why else would we proactively call this boss ---when we never call anyone else's boss?  A part of the conclusion sums it up, when it describes this action creating"..an unprofessional appearance of conduct inconsistent with a public service organization that depends in part, on volunteer services as a basis of necessary support."

We ought to find ways to facilitate and encourage volunteers---not ways to "knock them off the log!"

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight. You're saying we should let anyone volunteer as a firefighter even if it goes against the rules and regulations of their full time employer (presumably the military in this case).....

Anonymous said...

How underhanded that the union thugs worked to destroy volunteers. Then complain there are not enough fire fighters to man the trucks, when they ran off two dozen. All to make more money. How do they sleep at night.

Anonymous said...

In a Combination Department, where leaders constantly rail on social media about a perceived “lack of resources” you think they would throw their doors open to physically fit, educated, and honorable young men and women; who would not only do a great job, but also for a fraction of the cost to the taxpayer. That elusive “4th man” would be filled and then some, if there wasn’t such a blatant disdain for volunteers. Instead we have Lieutenants and Captains that would rather interfere and turn away this community’s greatest resource, its people.

Anonymous said...

This is from your web site:

STEVEN C AMMONS FIRE CAPTAIN FIRE ADMIN $93,423.01

I guess he doesn't make enough money and wants no volunteers.

Anonymous said...

There is and has never been a written policy in any branch of the military that bans service members from being volunteer firemen. I was a vollie in outside of Camp Lejeune and we never had a problem. But my fire officers weren’t calling the base either. This is on that ECFR employee and his unprofessionalism.

Anonymous said...

I see your union thugs are at work releasing private information about who volunteers work for by claiming they are "presumably" military. Well, I know that many military members have been on active duty and fought in mixed martial arts, boxing and in dangerous olympic sports like judo, boxing, wrestling and others. I am a retired Vietnam vet and know of no regulation stating a military member can't serve as a community volunteer fire fighter. What a bunch on nonsense. In fact, a simple internet search shows this is incorrect. Look at this story from Fort Stewart.

https://www.army.mil/article/81802/soldiers_serve_as_volunteer_fire_fighters

Also, being a soldier (1.3 million active duty) is much more dangerous than being a firefighter (1.1 million in America). Here is nationwide firefighter deaths for 2019.

News & ResearchData, research, and toolsEmergency respondersFirefighter fatalitiesFirefighter deaths by cause and nature of injury table
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Firefighter deaths by cause and nature of injury


Cause of Injury

Fatalities

Percentage

Overexertion/stress/medical

26

54%

Rapid fire progress/explosions 6 13%
Crashes 4 8%
Struck by vehicle
4 8%
Fell

3
6%

Structural collapse

1

2%

Exposure to electricity
1 2%
Lost inside
1 2%
Exposure to heat 1 2%
Assault 1 2%
Total

48

100%

Nature of Injury

Fatalities

Percentage

Sudden cardiac death

22

46%

Internal trauma and crushing

14

29%

Burns 4 8%
Asphyxia, including smoke inhalation

2
4%

Stroke 2 4%
Gunshot 1 2%
Suicide 1 2%
Electrocution

1

2%

Heat stroke 1 2%
Total

48

100%

Source: Firefighter Fatalities in the United States, Rita F. Fahy, Jay T. Petrillo, and Joseph L. Molis, NFPA, July 2020 and previous reports in the series.

Updated 7/20

Active duty military lose hundreds to thousands on any given year to training and combat deaths.

I hate that it comes to this type of tribalism over who has a more dangerous job as all who serve the public should be praised. But, it seems the union fire fighters want to run volunteers out and Ammons is all to happy to be their stooge.

Anonymous said...

Shame, we could of had 20 more unsupervised children running amok with their online fire school standards.

Anonymous said...

Military members are encouraged to volunteer in the community. There are exactly zero policies in place that forbid military members from volunteer fire fighting. Military members from NAS pensacola and NAS Whiting Field have been volunteers in the county since the beginning of time. It only magically became not allowed when they wanted to get rid of the volunteers.

Anonymous said...

I wonder which career fire fighter used their big brain to type this one out.

Anonymous said...

Which anonymous career fire fighter used their big brain to type this one out?

Mel Pino said...

Commissioner Bergosh, the following comments have nothing to do with guilt or innocence of the particular firefighters involved in the situation under investigation--that's probably going to get chewed over ad infinitum here anyway. I hope the paranoid segment of the union guys who for some deluded reason think that I am their enemy hear that loud and clear. I don't know what union secrets they could possibly think I have to share, and apparently they haven't noticed that I have focused my efforts on exposing corruption in the administrative leadership of the department. Unless the Union heads are protecting the inept bureaucracy that "leads" that department, which has been gaming the systems and spilling stupid amounts of money on nonsense and questionable procurements for years on end, rather than their union members, they have nothing to worry about with me. And I might have been able to get more done helping them stave off this always biased, now botched, Fire Chief role had at least one of them not expended wasted resources warning people against my duplicity (eye ball roll). As it is, when I heard that was going on again I pretty much threw my hands up in the air. Doesn't change the fact that there is no way on God's green earth Jason Rogers should be hiring our new Fire Chief. It's a ludicrous situation, like so many other three-ring-circus fiascos under Gilley. There's a very good chance the Board will end up deeply regretting it if you allow her to push that hire forward right now. As it stands you've already got a veritable mini swamp to drain out with all her bad hires and the new do-nothing positions she has created as security blankets for herself.

Back to this investigation. Remember back in the day when Ammons came to the podium and pled his little heart out for that ridiculous training scenario, with you on the podium not realizing that he had been all over the emails on the illegal procurement attempts?

Glad you're on to him now. You could put a real investigation on him and his cohort and dig back for years if you really wanted to stand your hair on end.

Which brings me to the real point--you'd have to have a real investigation unit at your disposal in order to do that, and Janice's bogus Ethics and Compliance department ain't it. They "produce" what Janice tells them to produce, pure and simple.

As for that quasi is-but-it-isn't public record document they handed you to close the investigation? I wouldn't--and don't--trust a single word that comes out of that nexus of Investigations, Janice, and the Attorney's office bolstering her incompetence and self interest with dubious legal opinion.

You saw first hand what they are capable of perpetrating with the Selover case. Why on earth would you ever trust them on anything else going forward? It's not as if they cooked up something super nefarious for Matt's special torture. That's how they roll, period. The difference with his case--like this situation you have called to investigate--is it got advocacy and attention. There are plenty of others that haven't.

So you've gotten a policy change you consider important out of this: that's they bone they throw. If I were you, I wouldn't quit until I had personally spoken to higher ups on the Base and nationally on this topic. Yes, it may be the same answer of "hell no." (In that case, they better plan on taking the crotch rockets away and lock down on the unintentional injuries.) If so, that would at least be a helpful starting place for a tally on when your admin/attorney have lied to you, and when they haven't.

Anonymous said...

Craig Ammons detest volunteers on all levels, unless they will sit in his office and bash other volunteers with him.

Anonymous said...

And Craig Ammons lives in Santa Rosa County so he could care less about this County

Sgt E. Hunter USMC said...

Well let me tell you a cpl things Anonymous Veteran. The Army might allow that stuff to occur. Every single branch of the military has their own rules. These rules change with each commander that takes over also as you should know. I can personally tell you which you should also know is the US Government owns you whenever you sign up to serve in the military. I clearly remember when I was in Japan I got a sunburn one weekend hanging out at the beach partying and having a grand ole time. The sunburn I got was so bad I couldn’t work Guess what happened to me. My Commander gave me a page 11 discipline because I could no longer work the mission. That’s what this comes down to and it really isn’t that hard to understand. Different commander have different rules and they can do that because they are military and they can do that. I know for a damn fact that the union had nothing to do with this as you anonymously eluded to. I personally know a Marine Corps instructor of the NAS school who was also a Marine Corps Bootcamp instructor that was also a volunteer for ECFR and was affected by this commanders orders of hell no. From what I hear the military volunteers were extremely liked by career fire guys because they were actually disciplined, not afraid to work, understood rank structure, and not there to just hang out get free t-shirts and say they had a clubhouse. I’m fact i would be willing to bet that a main reason this also happened is because the military can control you having or not having a secondary employment while you are on active duty especially as a student. Marine Corp students aren’t alllowed to do a damn thing except go to school and then back to barracks to study and chow halls and cannot even leave the base unless they are granted leave. This mattters greatly here as from what I’ve been told this would be considered employment because they get paid a monthly stipend which makes them Paid On Call Firefighters and not Volunteers as volunteering means you get no pay or compensation because you actually are VOLUNTEERING your time and not accruing it for a monthly stipend check. I believe there is also a member of the BOCC that is a military officer who could’ve been consulted to verify this as well before just jumping on here into a tyrant rant on how poor military students are being run off by mean career firefighters and a big bad King Kong union. The military is not your local mom and pop boss. They can do what they want, when they want to anyone they want in those branches and that’s how it is. That’s why my buddy who is at NAS Pensacola was told by his commander he wasn’t allowed to even go to his sons football games this year because of the Covid outbreaks or he would face disciplinary action. Guess what he did? He stayed home and didn’t go because they own him and if he doesn’t like it then know what he can do. He can leave at the end of his CONTRACT that he VOLUNTARILY signed. So if by some chance one of these students got hurt and couldn’t finish flight school or would be there longer or even had to change their MOS because of it would Escambia County provide reimbursement to the military for what was already spent and wasted on this student. Would this Commisioner sign that check or would all of you find a way to blame this on Career firefighters also. I think some of y’all need to not believe everything you read and go out to some of these fire houses and see how things are. Go see the good and the bad cause I’m sure it isn’t perfect or you could just sit here on this blog and believe everything and then throw your two cents in anonymously instead of owning up to your comments. Maybe that’s just a Marine Corp thing.

Anonymous said...

So since you understand Federal Regulations, both the Internal Revenue Service and Department of Labor audited of service and concluded that our volunteers are just that volunteers under the laws of this great country.

Anonymous said...

So if I work for ECFR I don’t need to disclose that I’m working at a 2nd job on the side? Because I got an email about this not too long ago? That I had to disclose any other employments I currently hold while being a firemen for escambia county. But I guess I can disregard that email and toss it out. Lol, cause there’s no reason to disclose that information to the county right?

Danno said...

The private corporations policies are not the business of the county. Company policies are between the company and the employer.

Anonymous said...

Only if you apply to a job that does everything to prevent you from actually approved like ECFR does to volunteers to make sure they can show a slide that volunteer numbers are down.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, volunteer numbers are down. It's ridiculous and I personally blame the military. How dare they order these guys not to volunteer. We should sue the military and then get them shut down. Our fire department will not be able to operate without these guys showing up once a week for a few hours. I'm going to leave a bad Google review for the US navy and maybe that will lead to some change around here.

Anonymous said...

This is why the department/county should have a deputy chief/volunteer coordinator that reports only to the chief. This person should directly oversee all issues dealing with the recruitment, training and supervision of the volunteers of the department.