This settlement, below, will be on next Thursday's agenda for consideration by the Escambia Board of County Commissioners.
The conduct that led to this issue was a series of blunders by management--to include an abject failure by administration to honor an employee's basic due process rights.
There was also an allegation of harrassment against this employee that the county did NOT properly investigate and settle as stipulated in board policy.
While this settlement, if approved by the board on Thursday, will be paid 100% by an insurance policy we carry--nevertheless this will impact our rates going forward in a major way. And this employee did deal with the stress of the whole ordeal. He told me, in October/November of 2019 before it went to court "I don't want to sue the county--I just want to get back to work and work for Escambia County Public Safety!" But unfortunately that did not work out that way.
And this all came on the heels of the other harrassment case we settled in Public Safety just a year earlier!
Saddest and most disappointing of all---this never even had to go to the courts. It could have (should have) been addressed properly in November of 2019. But some HR and admin folks didn't listen and couldn't see what was coming. Even when they were told, even when they were shown. Nope. They, instead, got BAD advice from a guy that did not and does not even work for Escambia County, a " healthcare consultant" of sorts. His advice on this was about as good as the Titanic's navigator in the North Atlantic......
And now, we are going to have to swallow ANOTHER big settlement in Public Safety.......due to botched managament and oversight. I can't wait to have this and other related discussions this coming Thursday.
64 comments:
Thanks, Commissioner Bergosh. I'm in tears right now reading this. Very mixed emotions. It can't be said enough: none of this--none of it--had to happen. I've never before seen such an abject failure of professional knowledgee, workplace regulations, and professional (and personal) ethics. It's just breathtaking. No, now that I've said that, it's got punching. That's how it feels sitting here typing this. So much suffering in that department--Matt's situation is simply emblematic of the whole--and for what? What. Two weak and self-interested administrators looking out for their own backs and working at that high five. The lack of human compassion, empathy, even CONCERN for what they have wrought is appalling and unsettling.
Another commenter said in another blog post with a bunch of comments (it would take me a while to run through the blogs and find it) that I don't understand that some things aren't public record. It seemed to me that what the commenter was trying to say--not trying to put words in his or her mouth, perhaps that person will clarify-- is that even if they are, it hurts more to drag them out into the light than to just leave it be.
I agreed, back in the spring of 2018. Looking back, maybe if I had just unleashed everything I knew then along with documentations that were unfortunately very salacious, I could have helped stop the worst of all this.
To that commenter, I understand public records law very well. David Bear's lawyers and the magistrate in the federal case against Doug Underhill have been giving an excellent refresher course on what has already be settled, and will probably set new precedence in the social media realm. But as to whether some things should be dragged into the light: I wish I didn't have to do many things that I felt forced to do because County Administration, HR, and the County Attorney's office Would. Not. Do. The. Right. Thing. It literally made me physically ill to have to do it.
Everything I have brought out in the last two years, I knew in spring of 2019. So please consider that. I could have unleashed all of it then, but didn't. Because I was blind and unjaded enough that I actually thought that at some point SOMEBODY was going to Do. The. Right. Thing. Every time I brought out a new exposure of just how sickening the situation in that Public Safety division was, I watched the dull faces of obdurate, manufactured ignorance look down at their hands and then go cover up what I had just brought out in the background. Why do you think there were the two high-profile surprise exits out of public safety back to back? Everybody knew what was coming. So I actually held back on a lot of stuff I knew when they left. Because at that point, I thought, hey! Maybe somebody is going to Do.The.Right.Thing.
Thank you, Commissioner Bergosh. You didn't have to take this on, but you did, and as a result that loophole in the Merit System Protection Board is closed. People still don't understand how important a change that was, although they should have in witnessing Janice try to politic against you as you were recommending the change. Matt will never be financially whole on this, but at least he and those of us advocating for his broken due process have a firm statement now on just how bad it was. There's good reason the lawyers didn't want this thing going to trial.
--Melissa Pino
Sorry, just need to correct the timeline--I accidentally said spring of 2018. It was May of 2019 when I became aware of what was really happening under Dr. Edler's direction at EMS and started trying to expose it. I've never tried harder, with less results, at anything in my life than to try to help put a stop to this madness. I saw things during the last two years that have deeply rattled my faith in humanity. Hopefully the process of rebuilding from the megalomaniac personalities driving this debacle will go a long way towards restoring it.
--Melissa Pino
Melissa, only if the they get rid of the megalomaniac personalities. We will see if he votes to get rid of the one at the top and bring in a professional administrator with actual leadership/executive experience.
https://mqa-internet.doh.state.fl.us/MQASearchServices/Document
So how do settle with someone with that absurd amount of money when the DOH finds probable cause for 8 counts against him.
I agree, Anonymous 11:10 AM. The culture at the County has become insufferable for staff. Removing the current administrator won't be sufficient to fixing it, but it's certainly necessary. I would really hope that if the Commission recognizes this and starts making the necessary decisions to fix it, the County could get back some of the amazing staff who have fled, been forced out, terminated, and had fake investigations run on them in the last two years.
--Melissa Pino
Here is the Department of Health (DOH) Complaint against this "poor paramedic" that ran and filed a harassment complaint when his actions were called into question by the Medical Director.
FDLE did an investigation and gave it over to DOH who issued a probable cause Administrative Complaint!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/EscCitizensWatch/permalink/4040664012636000
Did any of the commissioners READ the DOH Complaint?
Do you any of you CARE about the lives affected by this paramedic's actions??!!
You are right! This did not NEED to happen if you had kept your political crap out of a MEDICAL decision and stopped trying to involve and reveal a confidential complaint with your mysterious restaurant fictional stories and your encouraging him to sue from the dais.
You said you didn't get involved but you blogged that you had read testimony from the hearing and you, with your vast medical experience, are much smarter than the medical people at the Department of Health apparently, because you said the charges were BASELESS!
Who plays with people's lives like this board does, underfunding Public Safety, propping up the bad employees so they can attack other workers that you don't like? It's sickening!
It has become blatantly obvious that the majority of the board is only concerned about their own financial position and that of their pals and NOTHING about the Life Safety and Quality of Life issues for the rest of us!!
MAKES ME SICK!
This post is so middle school...
they settle with a 4-1 not pitchforks and vomit
https://jeffbergoshblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-timing-of-this-email-is.html#more
if I recall there is a blog about Jeff consulting with a doctor...
as far as not in the public domain, I don't know, It should have never gone this far
Reading is fundamental But is it hard to hear when your nose is up someone's ass.
*head
HUHA
Jacqueline: Of course I read the charges leveled against this paramedic. I've looked into this a lot more deeply than your very topical and superficial "look." We are settling with him due to multiple reasons that were valid. I suspect those will be discussed Thursday. Had we gone to court, it would have cost much more. Believe that. By the way, I know you love to deal in hearsay, rumors, innuendo, and gossip. That's fine, do what you want. I deal in facts, though. FACT--this individual medic was a fine employee. His previous supervsor told me point blank "If my MOM was dying right here, I would completely trust Matt to care for her." Also, he has been working at a different employer since he left Escambia County, as a paramedic, and he has been promoted twice--he is doing a fantastic job. About the civil, administrative complaint: AFTER this former employee leveled a harrassment complaint (that was not handled properly by management, let's put it that way)---only then was he targeted for discipline and only then were these charges against him submitted to DOH. Prior to the medical director finding out he had filed harrassment charges against her---he was not restricted in his work as a medic, not at all. Not after any one of these "alleged" incidents presented in the DOH complaint (that this medical director never addressed with him for the year + that she supervised him), and not after his QA/QI board. Nope, he was not disciplined, not counseled once. Never. In fact--- he was up for a promotion when he was subjected to this mistreatment by his supervising doctor. The "cases" presented to DOAH were thrown together, and his priviliges restricted suddenly------------ONLY after this medical director was informed that a harrassment investigation was filed by him against her. Do you get that Jacqueline, or do I need to join the dots for you? Her actions against him appear to have been retaliatory. That's what the timeline shows--and I saw it all along and tried to assist with his situation being handled before it went to court. But HR and Admin had their minds made up. And here we are now. And oh, by the way, a very well qualified medical doctor, an expert, refuted each and every allegation that was sent to DOH by Dr. Edler. Why don't you read that and learn something? I suspect the upcoming county funded defense for this former employee paramedic will explain the timeline to DOAH, show them the write up by a much more experienced, much more seasoned and professional medical doctor which negates these allegations against the former medic, one by one. And I believe this administrative complaint will be dismissed. Kind of like how all thos Felonies in the other case in the paper suddenly just vaporized into thin air. Remember, anyone can throw allegations against a wall to see what sticks. But the truth will come out, and it will set you free. Truth is power, Jacquline. Try it out once and a while why don't you?
As far as public records out in the domain.
maybe Edler's driver's license number with her address on it should not have been a public document filed in the case Edler vs Pino that was released by the county..for one instance.
But yes as a whole I think the public conflict is bad for morale, they have enough to deal with, with just work.
I guess in a perfect world, people get things on the agenda, go by procedures put in place, vote, respect the process and go on about their lives.
Know their duties, like the QA/QC had no function for hiring and firing considerations.. and so on.
Many have been following these cases.
You have to know the county did have to pay a fine.. There is a lot of info out there.
The political football started on ECW with Rogers and Underhill.
Also you all aiding Edler to file a lawsuit against a citizen, Pino was political also.
The go fund me on Commissioner Underhill's page for Edler's legal fees and Jacqueline Rogers, Blackwell and Mrs Underhil being the first ones contributing was a bad look.
laying it out on PNJ -- not so good either.
Bergosh started these blogs for counter balance. One sided info pumped out is disinformation and political propaganda.
Jacqueline, what you and your new band of Underhillian foot soldiers are perpetrating over on ECW right now is a new low--and that's saying something.
Do you even understand one of the most cherished cornerstones of our justice system, "innocent until proven guilty?" Does it matter to you, at all?
I gave up wondering if you have any shame a long time ago. It's clear you don't. But I would have thought that you'd have presence of mind enough after your long political career to at least not look like a stone cold fool. You guys are really showing what you've been about all along there the last week, and people have eyes wide open.
So please do keep posting. Your diatribe with continually reposting these charges in the DOH complaint clearly demonstrate how little you actually understand about what front line responders deal with over their course of service. ANY skilled paramedic--ESPECIALLY ONE WHO WAS ROUTINELY SENT ON SOME OF THE MOST DIFFICULT CALLS, AS HE IS ONE OF THE BEST PARAMEDICS IN THE AREA AND HAS CERTIFICATIONS NOBODY ELSE IN THE AREA HAS--could have a list concocted like this by somebody with bad intentions. Which Dr. Edler certainly has had, from the moment she hit the County on a retribution tour.
Here are some questions back. Do you ever consider that these people have families? Loved ones? Friends? All of whom you insult and hurt with your bitter and ill-founded accusations every time you go on your disinformation train.
Do you recognize the horrendous financial implications for these people? Did you even read the article about Steve White getting all 15 of his felonies dropped?
Why hasn't Jim Little's article on THAT been posted over in your war room yet?
Do you recognize how often I get a text that says "what she is doing over there is literally making me sick"?
Nobody's buying what you've been shoveling any more. And you and Doug's nefarious campaign of protecting Dr. Edler after what she has done to this department--EVEN after you were aware of what was going on--and the people she has targeted, harassed, and tried to destroy, are one of the number one causes--if not THE number one cause--of the current state of our EMS.
Whether you realize it or not, that will always be part of your legacy. Of all of the horrible end results that your disinformation tribe has occasioned over the years in this County--and they are legion--your nasty politicking on some of the best people who have ever worked for this County didn't just impact them and their loved ones negatively. It impacted every single citizen of this County, as our EMS kept deteriorating as you just kept plugging away on your malicious political spin.
What was it that one of your fellow plaintiffs in one of your constant (losing) suits on land rights screamed at me as I walked by you guys that day? "Give it up!" Maybe you ought to think about taking a breather for a while. Because you clearly have no idea just how bad you are showing on this issue.
--Melissa Pino
Jacqueline, I’m guessing you’re the one that runs the Pensacola page Escambia county watch? How would you know more than the commisioner? Your page attacks relentlessly without facts. You’re not doing Pensacola any good believe it or not.
Commisioner Bergosh I have a new found respect for you for standing your ground against the local bullies that appear to have their own agenda. I guess it’s a power trip for the bullies to compensate for something they’re lacking in their lives. You can be attacked with hearsay assumptions and conspiracy theories for only so long before you don’t have a choice than to fight back
If the board doesn't have confidence in the medical director, it's time to look at that contract also.
Looks like the Steve White case will set a precedence.
What happened to right to a speedy trial?
These paramedics have had to wait over a year with the charges over their head.
How can someone claim whistleblower if the cases are thrown out of court.
I really look forward to resolution on all this.
Response to this anonymous comment:
"As far as public records out in the domain.
maybe Edler's driver's license number with her address on it should not have been a public document filed in the case Edler vs Pino that was released by the county..for one instance."
Did that actually happen? If it did, I was completely unaware of her license being posted.
As far as it pertained in her suit against me, an Underhill troll name Ray Johnson posted the PNJ article about Edler suing me. And taunted me saying I was going to feel the wrath of dealing with the expendable income of a doctor. Said that suits of this nature could quickly escalate up to the hundreds of thousands. As if I didn't know.
A poster on that wall came back and posted the public information that Edler was advertising her house for sale on a public real estate site. Another poster came on and said, yep, that's her property--here are the tax records.
She tried to parlay that into me stalking her, and an inept new judge went completely off the rail giving me a TRO on it, and demanding I get those posts down, which I didn't even have any ability to do.
Thank goodness Judge Danheisser--who just won an award for the most fair judge in our area--called out how ridiculous that all was, and not only made sure the court docket was wiped clean of that TRO on me, but also stated in no uncertain terms that the previous judge had made a mess of things.
I have never heard that Edler's driver's license got posted online. If that happened, I missed it. And I would be very surprised if that happened and nobody say it and told me about it.
--Melissa Pino
I always chuckle when I read one of Melissa Pino's post when she brings up her overwhelming knowledge of county government. All of this from a person who's biggest job experience listed on her resume is asking "Do you need a menu or do you already know what you want?"
This is what the county is settling with? Tell the whole story. Excerpt copied from Escambia Citizens Watch, This mother saw the video evidence. Facts and truth take time to be found, disinformation and lies are instant.
“EMS cleared my son's pockets as he lay face down and unresponsive and never once checked his airway or provided C-spine precautions. They checked a carotid pulse by lifting his shoulder and allowing him to flop back down. They rolled the other man from prone to supine and allowed him to flop back prone without EVER providing airway or C-Spine protection!
I met with our local government to address CHANGE! Change in education and change in patient care is my intention!!!
This should NEVER be acceptable!
So, moving on....I welcome your support and am grateful to those that have already sat with me during the first meeting.
A doctor friend quoted a trauma article yesterday and said, "The fate of the wounded lies in the hands of the one who applies the first bandage".”
The only place Ms Pino can communicate is on blogs like this, what are we back in the early 90’s. She’s been blocked/removed from every local group on social media. Commissioner Bergosh, you look like a fool for appointing Mrs Pino to the Marine Advisory Board.
Jacqueline Rodgers is preying on Dawn’s pain in my opinion, using her and her grief as a tool to further her and Underhill’s agenda. They brought out a post from 2018 to stir up sympathy and I think it’s sick. ECW doesn’t rely on facts, just emotional ranting.
Oh Jaqueline, you love to just spread rumor, lies and hate without a shrewd of decency or integrity it seems. You always seem to get your timelines wrong which is why you probably don’t see the error of your ways. In ALL of the cases complaints against your Dr came first. It’s public record. There is a clear pattern: she acts in some inappropriate way, gets caught, has complaints filed, administration ignores said complaints and she retaliates with false claims. You don’t seem to care that far more experienced and credentialed medical doctors refute her claims. You don’t seem to care about facts. You constantly claim that she has fixed EMS. Really? What has she accomplished? Employees have fled. Training reforms that were put in place have been canceled. Employee led organizational improvements were scraped. There are less ambulances on the road today than the day she walked in. My understanding there are still no protocols after she pulled them and copied another agencies.Let’s also don’t forget that probable cause is a low bar. It doesn’t mean anyone is guilty of anything. Lives of honorable public servants have been altered to settle scores and feed the ego of what appears to be an out of control person. Then you prop up and administrator who allowed it to continue and has cost hundreds of thousands. Let’s do not even forget the fact that her hiring may have been a violation of federal law because a veteran was discrimated against. That’s probably why when complaints came down administration had to attack the REAL whistleblowers. Did you even hear her interview where she talks about not having an ethical line under the right circumstances (paraphrased). So get your facts right. Get on the right side of history.
Yeah because your dr of destruction has done so well in the courts when the actual facts can be evaluated. Oh wait she’s lost. Every single time. I heard some things about perjury. Maybe true, maybe false. Maybe that played into other issues going on. Will you still be cheering for the dr when law enforcement comes knocking about that?
Why don't you make Pino whole for what Edler also has done to her? Not to mention the damage to free speech for other citizens by a county employee making 200K because you merged two positions. The county is enabling a well funded employee willing to use her position like a bludgeon.
Anon 8:55 you have fallen victim to misinformation. The mother saw the video, but what they all hide is that the EMS administration at the time met with the mother. The employees involved were removed from the organization, significant training reforms were put in place, 100% of the department was forced to do training, a comprehensive training program was initiated as well as service excellence training to rapidly address concerns in knowledge gaps or negative trends. The medical director even approved the training, but after complaints were filed she decided to destroy the place and what you see now is the hollow shell of its former self. The day White walked out EMS was fully or near fully staffed, and that was at the lower pay rate. I think what people also fail to understand was that White has an education background with numerous awards and sat on some kind of State EMS board. He wasn’t a dummy even though the MD likes to play she’s the only one who knows anything without any evidence to back that up other than she got her MD out of the country. The training was refreshing. What the commish needs to focus on is why, in the face of so much evidence of destruction the administration has allowed it to continue. More damage, more retaliation, more suits, the county losing. All because of a vendetta and no one brave enough to tell her enough. Stop attacking Pino for bringing sunshine on these facts. My question is what would have happened had she not?
This seems like the fair thing to do.
Well Belinda you see when groups like ECW want to spread false propaganda, they don’t want people like Pino brining up things like facts. No, that just won’t do. How can they spread their misinformation campaign and give D1 and the MD cover when annoying facts keep revealing they are actually the aggressors against the real whistleblowers.
I’m sorry for my emotional outburst. I admit I’m emotional and it really gets in the way of facts sometimes.
I’m sorry if this comes off as being insensitive but the “whole story” as you say doesn’t come from a grieving mother that’s being used on Escambia Citizens Watch as a tool to further commisioner doug underhill’s hatred for other Commisioners. EVERY “cause” that commisioner recruits his followers to help with is never what it appears to be on the surface.
Anonymous 8:47, only a fool would continue to throw down disinformation on my c.v. when it has been made available publicly in a variety of places. As I have said elsewhere, working in restaurants to put myself through undergrad wasn't the only job I've held, of course. (For those who don't know, I taught at Boston University, Harvard College, and Harvard Extension and was an assistant in the editorial department at the Massachusetts Historical Association, and have held many other jobs and positions as well.) I have no idea why the people posting that I've "only" been a waitress continue to insult people in the service industry in that fashion, especially given we are a tourist-driven economy that should be far more grateful for the people who slog long hours in hospitality work than they typically hear from the community, who all benefit from the tax base they help to generate. Of course, there is a good chance that the person behind this comment is able to post online all day because he has the financial assistance of disability paychecks.
Anonymous 8:55, I can't tell whether you are simply lying or have fallen prey to Jacqueline's intentional comingling of Ms. Bybee's tragic loss of her son and Matt Selover's suit, by which she is actively trying to trick people into the misperception that Matt was one of the responding medics in that horrible situation. He wasn't.
9:01, I have been removed by an administrator from only two public forums: Escambia Citizens Watch, and Escambia Citizens Watch (free speech). I voluntarily removed myself from a half dozen others, as I didn't see that my contributions there were making much impact, or I felt the administration of the forums were biased. I remain a member of two other discussion forums that I think, for the most part, are productive places for conversation.
The biggest disinformation piece Jacqueline and others are pumping out on ECW the last few days is that Matt Selover has already been found guilty of his probable cause finding by the DOH.
Of course, he hasn't even had his DOAH hearing on that yet. And the probable cause panel didn't even sit on that particular complaint until a couple of weeks ago.
Keep posting lies and disinformation, and I'll keep posting rebuttals. More and more people are waking up to the truth every day.
--Melissa Pino
Belinda White I can assure you Jeff Bergosh is no fool. I may disagree with him on issues he done a very good job as a County Commissioner Let me ask are you member of the Legion of Jacqueline Aimee Rogers they remind of the Legend of Doom from the superfriends. They are very good at spreading lies falsehood and most time look idiots caise they dont what they are talking about
Yep, we heard the MD job interview. The veteran was discriminated against. Also I think what happened was the Dr wanted to be on the top of the organizational chart like they do in New Orleans when Escambia was organized in a different way. By statute the medical director has certain limitations under QA/QC and it was not for administration duties. I think th paramilitary dysfunctional articles came out most likely driven by Underhill saying he was reforming the county while actually he was running a wrecking ball through it.
Talking about the Administrator eval coming up. She said she brought in Maygarden as a voluteer and then actually paid him a tidy sum. How was that valid, Of course he has been, I think a senator and a 33rd degree Mason, and sits on hospital boards. How does that make him a fair arbitrator between the MD and the employees. I would think Gilley giving a text to him to show Edler to use in the case where Edler is sueing a citizen was not a good look. It's on the Nov 13 transcript on the file. In her own words. On Record.
all in all the irony is most likely because of MD issuing public statement on ECW about paramedics the day of the trial (June 9) in conjunction with Underhill is what has made the difference in what the States Attorney has to go on.
Prideful people given enough rope often hang themselves.
I hope that helps in the Whistleblower case she is also visiting upon the taxpayers and the board.
We've had enough of her.
Will Momma Bear please eat a frog June 17?
I do not have a problem with the AG's decision of anonymous IPs. that is on the agenda. Plus VPN is a thing.
You're right. Anonymous speech is free speech, especially in a climate where the county administrator aides and abets the highest paid employee to SLAPP citizens.
True there were issues with billing, that was definitely an "aw shit" moment, but the director brought that to your attention as soon as he saw that.
The blow up in public safety was an implosion and could have been handled with much more grace.
yes the citizens are still watching.
Belinda/Sean You're commenting here. Not being in group think facebook is probably a step in the right direction.
Also the PNJ article opinions that Theresa writes..
this is the problem with the public record requests at the county"
"The custodian of records has training in these areas and should be able to make the majority of decisions regarding disclosure without legal advice."
Plus Underhill "leaks" inappropriate info to try to further his political appearance among the lemmings.
I’m a member on ECW and I certainly can’t voice an opinion that doesn’t align with the admin’s without being jumped on and attacked. The same repeat attackers that do so to keep the hidden agendas flowing are Jacqueline Aimme Rogers, Douglas Underhill, his wife Wendy Underhill, Douglas Underhill’s sister in law Terry McCormick, Alex Arduini, and Sean Bullington. I doubt those 6 ever see the light of day due to being glued to ECW to slander, attack, drop innuendos, hearsay, assumptions, and lies to try and sway public opinion and distract from the real issues. Especially Jacqueline Rogers. You’d think a woman in her 60’s would be enjoying her elderly years instead of what she does. Thursday’s meeting can’t get here fast enough. Jacqueline, will you and Doug Underhill drag in Dawn to prey on her grief even more than you’ve already done, despite knowing that the settlement was for harassment and the fact that he was denied basic due process rights? Those pesky facts get in the way of your lies that prey on the emotions of your readers.
Every time Douglas Underhill and his crew hype up an issue to insinuate the oother Commisioners are doing sinister things, and then he threatens to expose them, nothing ever happens. Not. A. Thing. His wife even chimes in to attack her husband’s colleagues. It’s crazy. The real underhanded sinister happenings exist within administration, the HR department, Mr. Underhill and the outside people that don’t have anything better to do than do his bidding for him. Serious question, what do you all get out of it? In the long run it’s nothing except making gross fools of yourselves and ruining your reputation and credibility.
How many more settlements will the county dole out before they cut the head off the corrupt snakes to stop them in their tracks?
yes 352 she's on a narcissistic rage today..
watch the the one disagreeing with her..321.."POOF" removed..we'll see.
Looks like part of the problems is the county is putting sanctions on her ass.. for all her ridiculous NIMBY suits she keep bringing on us. and losing.
One good thing about reading the rants it helps me fills in something I missed watching the meetings, because you know sometimes we don't watch the whole thing..
didn't know Underhill brought up his legal fees again with no second.
That is what they are pissed about.. really.
Losing
Question: so the board has implemented a policy that public record go through the attorney.
I'm a member of public and find that appropriate.
Any way. So if "theoretically" another board member puts together a "shade" transcript, maybe --on his own, that's not even official, like maybe cut and pasted before the vote June 17 for Selover, would the board condone that rogue member clearly going against your clear direction? Is that ethical and legal?
I would think to have the respect of the people the board would censure those actions of a rogue member.
Be on the '"Watch"
See if it goes through the attn's office before June 17 and is released on maybe..oh I don't know..
Escambia Citizen's Watch..
Anonymous @504, have you seen Douglas Underhill’s financials and the serious debt he’s in? He doesn’t have any room to talk in the meetings about financial responsibilities. He wants the board to cover his legal fees since his go fund page didn’t do any good and he’s mad that the board won’t cover them so he’s hell bent on trying to destroy the whole board. That’s what’s really going on.
Thank you Anonymous 7:15 AM.
Something that makes my blood run cold on an instant when the thought comes into my head is, What if Kevin hadn't had to go to the bathroom and was late for forum, so saw Rusty Nail headed up the elevator to the fourth floor with Doug's seat empty on the dais?
He told me and I said, Great. Now we have to figure out what is going on with Public Safety.
Because I was one of those ignorant fools that had really never given Public Safety a thought. You need them, they show up, right? I had given great thought the to the situation at ESCO under the previous sheriff, but had never considered our EMS or Fire until things started exploding publicly at the meetings in the spring of 2019, and I did a PRR for some of Doug's emails with Fire--back when those types of things generally used to be fulfilled--and I hadn't been reading too many in until I saw what was going on with the sole source procurement for Rescue One and my hair stood on end. Then another advocate called and just as she was getting off the phone, she said, "oh, hey, do you know what's up with a fire truck showing up at every fender bender?" Which lit a light bulb in my head and it went back to the emails and it started to become clear. Well, the tip of the iceberg was clearly visible.
And it just is so scary to me that, if those happenstance things hadn't occurred, along with a couple of brave people from EMS finally pulling the trigger on getting in touch with me--didn't even know me, so how sad they were that desperate--what would have been by now. I have a bad feeling I would have been reading a headline in the PNJ and saying "good. looks like we got some very bad actors out of the County and into jail where we belong." And that is so wrong; an organization should never have so many serious fail points that something like that came close to happening. I pray for the others that the SAO's office sees through the County's nonsense on the other three people arrested, as well. And I have a heck of a lot more faith in DOAH than I do the DOH.
--Melissa Pino
I may be wrong, about Underhill legal fee brought up June 3. I don't see a motion for fees and no second, so that's what you get sometimes. A commenter on ECW said that, and I went back to the video and minutes and don't see it. That what you get on ECW. Some things omitted /some embellished. I trusted it for a short period of time until I saw for myself what they do there.
Either way if he brings a motion for his legal fees I still don't think the board should pay them. he brought it upon himself.
I think they are doing a false equivalency set up between Underhill and Selover.. Unless I missed something the commenter said the board pontificated while Underhill's attorney was in chambers and toward the end Underhill made a motion for legal fees and no one seconded it..
Looks like he was lying.
Par for the course.
Disinfo.
Jacqueline is crazy. She’s going after a retired county employee now because what she said didn’t fit Jacqueline’s agenda. Jacqueline does not work for the county but she’s telling a county employee she doesn’t know what she’s talking about lmao Jacqueline Rogers is a evil old lady that can’t handle being wrong.
I see where Jacqueline says she has the past safety director and one of the wives's public comments. She screen shots and then uses them like she did for Underhill/Edler to sue Pino, then acts like a school marm. Do not be fooled. She is ruthless. I used to wonder if she just had trouble figuring out the truth or if she did things on purpose. It think it is diabolical, manipulative and planned. I will be glad when this is over.
Look at how Jacqueline Aimee Rogers went At Gene Vakentino in april 2014 at public forum the issue was Party down South for over 10 minutes she conducted a Salem witch Trial on Gene and Steven Barry was in chardge of public forum that day. This lady will stop at nothing to insult and smear innocent people. The fighting needs to stop The coubty has important work to do lets move foward
It must be unfortunate to be in Jaquelines position to slowly realize as the real information comes out that she is the bad guy. What a bad feeling. Her covering up for someone who filed false claims because her feelings got hurt. When you are in that situation you really ha e three options: cognitively disassociate and cover by panicking and posting about it more. Surely if I double down it can’t be true that I am on the wrong side of history. You can quietly go away. The shame just makes you silently move on. You can repent and ask forgiveness. We all see which option she is picking. Now she’s even trying to grasp that White turned against the others. She really doesn’t like this guy huh? Except the SAO didn’t say he turned States evidence, it said problems with the evidence. Could it be some of the evidence had been tampered with? We don’t know, but apparently she does. Move from option 1 to 3 and go on with your life.
Reading the comments on ECW has been very eye opening. I now know who the most hateful, spiteful, and unstable people are in Pensacola.
The constant witch hunts that seem to be based on conspiracy theories, hearsay, innuendo, and speculation, are dangerous and irresponsible, to say the least. I don’t agree with many things the bocc do, but there are better ways to achieve changes and get their attention than the route the people on ECW encourage. Threatening and encouraging tarring and feathering board members won’t get you anywhere except slapped with a restraining order and a reputation as being mentally unstable. No wonder the bocc is wanting to keep better tabs on the PRR that go out. I would want to ensure none of my personal information was getting in the wrong hands too. We deserve access to records, but there’s no need for anyone’s personal information to be included.
It’s obvious there’s a big problem with county administration as well as the HR department that need fixing. Budgeting issues need real solutions, and our basic need a lot of attention (such as infrastructure, fire, ems). The board has a lot of real work to do, but when you have a rouge commisioner in cahoots with administration and a group of crazy citizens, that continually undermine the other board members, nothing gets done.
Escambia County needs unity not division. We need real solutions to real problems, not witch hunts based on falsities that distract.
I do not even want to spend my Sunday looking over there on toxic facebook but if she is going after who I think she is as a retired person in the know, I hope Karen stands her ground, we saw you at the March 12 2020 COW speak up, and of course right after that is when all things started going on with COVID.
But I guarantee you one thing I do know. Preventing Medical errors is NOT TO BE DONE IN A PUNITIVE ENVIRONMENT> PERIOD.
You foster unity and a willingness to talk about possible mistakes and mis haps and try as a team to correct them, not send them to PNJ or ECW.
This is as an outside person looking in.
You bet you have a problem with PRR because of what malignant players do with them.
Comb through and look for ways to dox.
If you meet them head on in conflict, like Pino and even Bear have done, it perpetuates the cycle of conflict until it is broken one way or another. I guess some have to get in the trenches though. Fight fire with fire. It is their path to walk.
The toxic environment keeps going and as far as I can tell it started with Rogers and Underhill and now Edler.
As far as me, I think you need to rethink the medical director position and break it back into the two positions, one over the jail and one over EMS and hire a mature person who understands the need to be nonpolitical and a unifier and who can insert themself into an organization and ask:
"What can I do to help, how can I make it better?"
An especially not SUE CITIZENS.
I don't know where you will go with Ms Gilley. I didn't pay attention to the CARES and PP and all that. Perhaps a JLAC or audit would clear any problem up with that. Perhaps clear direction from the board would be in order.
It's not all about the IP and punitive crap ECW wants to spin about her job performance and eval.
God help you this Thursday having to sit through the public spinning their yarns..
As far as extraditing yourselves from this, I know it probably takes time.
You can look on the case files and see a number of employees were deposed.
You probably have a culture of fear, and a fear of public embarrassment and shame and that it no way to run an organization.
That was a good attempt to deflect and state I am insulting service industry workers who probably stay with one establishment longer than a year and much like you are working on their college education studying far more than literature. Your resume clearly shows you have ZERO experience in government. Counting your tips or operating a cash register has little to do with the elected position you seek. Your bloated resume insinuates that just because you once heard a topic in a public meeting and talked about later online you are instantly “experienced” in that area and continuing education hardly distinguishes you in academia. Most see through your weak resume. What have you done since coming to Pensacola?
Ahh yes
Rescue one and Rusty Nail..yes I wondered what was with all that. Edler and her paramour set up an LLC for training. Wonder if they wanted to clear out a few employees, get her on the top of the org chart and hire the jet ski buddies..to be the new training department. Who knows..
I saw the article on the news yesterday about Pulse Night club, I wonder if HR had checked his record at Palm Bay and why he left his other position after the Pulse nightclub fiasco, That's water under the bridge..
Kinda.
Lavoy said she did us a favor by not excepting his withdrawal of his second or third resignation..
Then cried and went on to greener pastures.
That was a great loss for the county, to lose Amy.
Yes Underhill has probably consulted his logical fallacy poster "TO DO LIST"
and plans to set up his legal fees being paid against this paramedic getting a settlement.
Watch for it.
I'm rooting for the paramedic.
Amen, Karen.
The board needs to hear our real complaints (not ones that are conjured up based on vendettas), but people should have some self respect and class while getting their point across. The threatening, the emotional based childish rants, Douglas Underhill and his wife constantly downgrading the other Commisioners, and the “let’s burn them at the stake” militia mentality, isn’t helping the county as a whole. It’s accomplishing quite the opposite actually. It’s very reminiscent of the storming the capitol on January 6th by the QAnon crazies. What did that accomplish? A lot of arrests, injury, and death, and absolutely nothing they intended to accomplish. A very similar scenario is happening on the hate site, ECW. That mentality always backfires.
Doug Underhill cherry picking documents to give to the press and to (potentially dangerous) citizens (without a record of said documents being released to whom) to intentionally create a “torches, pitchforks, tar and feathers” (exact words posted on ECW) outrage against the other Commisioners, is sheer insanity. Documents that could potentially include personal information is what I believe prompted the discussion for vetting public records. It’s a legitimate concern. No one has any right or need to know personal information about the county Commisioners, or county employees.
103 is that you Cotton Under A weinie?
if so, for the one who can't tell the difference between Bender or Barry -- must not have watched many meeting.
At least Pino has qualified herself by paying attention. Don't know if the new qualifying factor for running as NPA needs attention on her part (escambia votes)
She will have a tough row to hoe.
She's terrible about ad hominem/black and white thinking/scorn/ screen shots/blaming others and not accepting blame and of course quoting NYT etc wins not many friends around here. No one wants to go toe to toe.
She probably won't win an election (who knows)--she's made a lot of enemies but could be someone's aide with all her knowledge. What ever she chooses.
She was probably put on the MAC because she's been attending meetings for a while , the person removed says she likes going to the beach and cooking hot dogs. (how sweet)
Someone who understands derelict vessel removal etc has good standing for a place on the MAC
You guys look ridiculous dropping Underhill talking points all over facebook btw.
and trying to get everybody to email bcc and clutter their inboxes like a mob tiger team. they see you coming-- up your game.
AMEN 302
Anonymous @1:03
You do know that Douglas underhill never had any experience as a politician right? Like her or not, Ms. Pino seems more experienced and knowledgeable about county business than anyone I’ve ever talked to.
Hopefully the Board has turned the threatening comments on ECW over to the sheriff's department and contacted facebook to have the group removed. We don't have to tolerate this behavior. It may be time to have additional security at the meeting like you did last summer when BLM was rioting in other places and planning to go to the government building.
Threatening Government officials is wrong. You are correct. It is insanity.
That is not Free Speech.
Just what will the board allow to continue in our county.
I looked over there. I see Bryan Caro speaking out in support of the medical director. I would like to know if he supports her suing a citizen and supports the administrator helping with that.
Approve
Yes?
No?
What about the rest of the BCC. You need to take a stand on that issue.
Do you approve of the medical director suing citizens.
Will you still give our tax dollars to a staff member for such actions..
Real Question. In fact you could get the Administrator on record about that on your coffee with commissioner video.
So yes that's a question for Wednesday AM.
Thank you
Please remind MsGilley that Underhill and his family attended the first hearing in support of Edler during Edler vs Pino and he also had that fund raiser for Edler on his Commissioner page and that Wendy Underhill Jacqueline Rogers and Theresa Blackwell were the first ones to contribute to that. Please ask her about that Wednesday and certainly Thursday. Thank you. In case you need public sentiment on that. I they they should both be relieved of duty for that alone. What does that say about your organization? Personalities aside. Most of us don't have 200k sitting around to get us a chance for public participation in our government.
The Anti Underhill cult is out in full force.
Thank you for running this, Mr. Reynolds. To anonymous who made this comment:
"If you meet them head on in conflict, like Pino and even Bear have done, it perpetuates the cycle of conflict until it is broken one way or another. I guess some have to get in the trenches though. Fight fire with fire. It is their path to walk."
If somebody had told me ten years ago that I'd no longer be teaching, but would instead be pitched in a battle against some of the most powerful people in County government to help innocent people who were being railroaded from going to jail, I would have said they were nuts.
I get down sometimes about having to continue yelling at the tops of my lungs. And this huge outpouring from a variety of anonymous corners here gives me a lot of hope that those of us fighting against some of these evils won't have to engage in verbal hand-to-hand combat any more to expose the horrendous disinformation strategists that have been ripping this community up for years.
Last night I talked with a friend about how much I hate that I've felt the need to keep my gloves on for such a long time. My friend sent me the following in response:
-----------------------------
This is another day, O Lord.
I know not what it will bring forth, but make me ready, Lord, for whatever it may be.
If I am to stand up, help me to stand bravely. If I am to sit still, help me to sit quietly.
If I am to lie low, help me to do it patiently. And if I am to do nothing, let me do it gallantly**
**and if I am to kick ass, take names, and raise holy hell, let me do it effectively.
------------------------------
I've never been making noise just for the sake of it; have always been results oriented (albeit against long odds, which I suppose led people to believe I was just messing); have NOT enjoyed the conflict; and wish there hadn't been a need for it.
Hopefully there is a time coming for our County government that people can sit quietly in observing the right things being done. And although I hope to always stand bravely for what's right, I also desire that at some point in the future this can be accomplished with far less volume and far more efficacy, regardless of whether it's from a dais, a podium, or a desk.
--Melissa Pino
1039
there should be more Anti Underhill citizens out in force. Perhaps using the medical director to file lawsuits was chilling.
Wouldn't you think using a strategic lawsuit against public participation (SLAPP) to silence critics deserves other citizens exposing the perpetrators?
Short of a gun to the head, a greater threat to First Amendment expression can scarcely be imagined. — Judge J. Nicholas Colabella (1992)
For Underhill and Escambia citizen watch (Underhill propaganda site), Wendy Underhill and Theresa Blackwell and Jacqueline Rogers to even think about claiming they are for transparency and first amendment freedoms plus publish articles and public opinions to the PNJ -- publishing it on the Underhill propaganda site..
Right.
Their utmost hypocrisy and vile nature was exposed by them supporting this action against another citizen.PERIOD.
That is their legacy, as is anyone who supports any of them.
And this not hyperbole. It is clearly a record and they all know it.
Any on on that site is with a den of vipers.
Abuse of power in plain site.
And yes, that's scary. and wrong.
again
Short of a gun to the head, a greater threat to First Amendment expression can scarcely be imagined. — Judge J. Nicholas Colabella (1992)
Bergosh are you going to do anything about that?
Sorry Commissioner Bergosh--that snippet to Mr. Reynolds was left over on my clipboard from a comment I posted on NorthEscambia today. -Mel
Melissa The drivers license was in a packet the county compiled and gave to, I guess Talbott, it was in one of the files, I think you were using to show she was the highest paid employees, they had merged two positions etc. I read along every single step of the way, blow by blow, as i didn't know what was going on.
I was surprised the clerk would even post that with out redacting it herself, so it went through all those hands and is on file on the clerk site.
Yes I wonder if the Ray Johnson is a fake profile of the underhills, he doxxed a few people, a real creep. People like that and others drove me off facebook.
I don;t think Kevin or Bear should have posted her address, so yes you crossed some boundaries yourself, however she wasn't suing Kevin. You aren't perfect either. neither am I, no one is. It was an attempt to intimidate her and you tried to get people to post her credentials. Somethings on the lawsuit were personal and some had to do with county business.
If Edler wanted privacy, she certainly didn't get it herself for filing the lawsuit. Think Streisand effect.
Honestly I think there were some faking going on with certs also..
it was/is a cluster.
It wasn't my job to handle it but I was certainly curious when all the leaders suddenly resigned.
Honestly, like Ann Frank.. I think people mostly think they are doing the right thing.
The conflict need to die down imo also.
However if I was out thousands of $ I would want revenge. or $.
Myself I think people should try to keep the attorneys out of it.
Churning public records, churning lawyer fees..really
where did it take us as a county..
Maybe it's time to cut losses and move on, and yes sometimes there is a time to be quiet, but it seemed right now was a time to "speak"
I'm not sure if more resignations or firing are in order but it's not my job to decide.
I talk about respect the process but I will be the first to go low myself, I know that.
When I feel emotional about an issue, I try to be quiet and reflect on why and take some time to examine it.
I absolutely think these complaints were handled badly and statutorily she did Not have to turn them in, she should have helped to remedy the situation..
my opinion, but she didn't..
We will have to see how it all turns out and live with it.
I would hate to a be a paramedic and have a mistake blasted from the roof top, that is very insensitive. and quite frankly dysfunctional.
I would hate to be a mother of a crash victim who had an under trained paramedic treat him and help in his death. That’s what’s truly dysfunctional, you are all evil for making this political.
Keep going Melissa. Be the ball.
The mother posted a video to a political site ECW with Doug Underhill on it and they promptly sent info to the news media. I agree, it should not have been made political.
Then they have the mother's go speak at political meetings.
very insensitive. be the ball.
Anonymous on the driver's license--wow. Truly, until this moment I did not realize that. Please understand that her attorney was doing shotgun filings, and we were battling the County for records, which they would take forever to fulfill until we were right up against a deadline--when they actually fulfilled them sufficiently, or at all. (I don't know if you remember, for instance, that I missed the HR complaints that got brushed under the rug in one of the personnel dumps--it wasn't until I had time to go back and comb through that I realized that there were docs that I hadn't seen, which might have been something as simple as bad network at the time not downloading stuff well enough.)
So I don't know if it was at that point her original attorney (whom she dropped when he presented her with that huge bill--speaking of fee churning) made a big stink about us posting her address in a filing. By this time, we were so used to Edler generating lies on the docket that our response was, "There she goes again." And this was after her own attorney kept posting the Facebook post on her public real estate listing AND DRAWING ARROWS TO THE LISTING WITH ADDRESS ON THE PUBLIC DOCKET...that's how worried she actually was about the public knowing that information. Hell, if she could have she probably would have charged for tours of the premises her last few months in that house. Her drama with that was just another piece of theater. And no, her public real estate listing was not put up to intimidate her, but to highlight how full of crap Ray Johnson was, because Edler had apparently gotten in over her head financially with had a house whose mold she couldn't afford to remediate. She posted Facebook photos of her conscripted free labor from the EMS department getting that house ready to sell, including photos that clearly showed them painting over very bad mold damage in the upstairs hallway while she was complaining all over Public Safety. When I saw the post, I knew in a heartbeat that's what Kevin was getting at. It was a response to the creeper OP on mocking us going up against a doctor to say, "A doctor who gets in above her head on a house renovation and then directs her subordinates to paint over the evidence."
So nice to finally be able to say that sort of thing.
As for asking for people to list her credentials online? I don't know what that's referring to, but I would be happy to explain anything else about what happened in that suit.
As for some of it being "personal," no, it wasn't. It was all tied to her actions at the County, and she knew we were going to be able to demonstrate that, which is one of the multitude of reasons, I'm sure, why she dropped the suit going into deposition.
This has now been documented:
--She was indeed prescribing pharmas to EMS staff
--She was indeed fraternizing in very serious ways connected with the Public Safety department
--She was indeed involving County staff in her never-ending legal dispute against the father of one of her daughters
--She did indeed order an IV of drugs to be administered in her office and then kept it off paperwork
Any decision that I made during the last year that looks like a decision of questionable character, I hope that anyone still reading comments here would ask yourself--if you knew innocent people were being railroaded into jail under a crooked administrator, where would you have drawn the line at fighting that?
I have drawn many, many lines in my own mind over the last two years.
Rayme Edler, Janice Gilley, Doug Underhill, and Jacqueline Rogers forced me to step over every single line of decorum I tried to hold while still defending innocent people.
So 2hile I respect anybody's opinion who caught that license, we differ on an important point: the chaos that has been engendered, and the County being ripped apart as a result, is the fruits of their labor. Not mine.
--Melissa Pino
Wait a second, here is the obvious question. What in the HECK was a driver's license doing in a personnel file the County turned over?
Just another instance of the horrible mismanagement of public records during Janice Gilley's tenure. I wonder if that one skirted the attorney's office also? When it turns out it actually should have been going to the Clerk's office for redaction, at that time, from the recent Supreme Court ruling.
--Melissa Pino
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